(February 15, 2015 at 8:58 pm)wiploc Wrote:(February 15, 2015 at 6:45 pm)robvalue Wrote: The universe may have always existed though, and as such would require no cause.
I don't understand that claim. I know that Christians make that claim about their god, but it seems arbitrary.
Suppose we discovered that a hamburger had always existed: two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, all on a sesame seed bun. Wouldn't you want an explanation? Wouldn't you want to know what had caused that to always exist?
It seems to me that something that has always existed doesn't have a cause, by definition.
(February 15, 2015 at 8:58 pm)wiploc Wrote: I don't know of any reason to believe that eternal things are uncaused.
Because there was never a time that an eternal thing did not exist, it must be uncaused.
cause/kôz/
noun
1.a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
