(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: thats not true. The argument stands, based on the fact, that most probably our universe had a beginning, and must therefore have a cause.Awesome. If you can prove the universe had a causation to its beginning, then there's several teams of astrophysicists who would really like the empirical data you have to back that up.
(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: that means, you don't oppose nr.2 of the kalaam argument : that our universe most probably had a beginning.In the sense that we understand the universe as it is, this does seem to have 'begun' at some point in time in the past. However, that doesn't mean that I agree on any of the other premises or that the universe 'began' in the sense that all of the matter and energy that exists in the universe now didn't exist prior to the singularity or the big bang.
The entire premise of the 'first cause' idea is entirely based on nothing substantial. It's merely filling in gaps in scientific knowledge with whatever it wants.
(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: our physical body is not distinct. But our spirit and soul, are distinct.and those are two things that don't exist. Our phyiscal body is the only thing we really have that we can prove and it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt where our heritage lies.
(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: In fact, its not provable. Thats why the right question should be : how can we best explain our existence ?That is an excellent question. I've chosen to believe that the best manner in which to explain our existence is by the things that I and/or others can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I've chosen to reject explainations that depend on things people have said or written without the benefit of knowledge or study.
That's why I believe science over religion. Science has proof and they're still studying these things based on what we know and what we can prove and it's done a lot more in terms of explaining our existance better than any other method ever devised. I'm satisfied with that.
(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: what is your belief in this regard ? If not God, you have two choices.You've created a false dilemma. You've deliberately only given two answers where the only reasonable one is the one you prefer and neither one will lead to an honest answer because there is no answer right now.
A eternal universe, never created
or a finite universe, which had no cause, since you exclude God.
So you stick to the idea, the universe could have caused itself ? sounds reasonable ?
(August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: excuse me ? that means, you believe things can pop up out of absolutely nothing ( which is the absence of any thing ? )Isn't that the default creationist position in this arguement?
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan