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Free Will, Decision making and religion
#23
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion
(March 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm)Ignorant Wrote: So do I! But if there is no "thing" (e.g. Descartes's soul, some metaphysical unity, whatever) which remains "itself" under one aspect while changing in other aspects, then there can be no "self" understood as we commonly understand it.

We experience that we have a continuous identity, but if there is nothing actually continuous about what we are (which, according to the worldview of the first post, seems to be the case), then there is no actual "I". It is merely the illusion of continuity.

I have no idea what "it" would be. According to physical determinism (or other similar models), what is the identifying continuity (if any) in a bacterium?

This is why I wasteinvest time and lurk or post here. It is to view others reasons and infer their reasoning, and to give and defend my own. I was not considering any temporal discontinuity of the self, only that the self existed (exists?) at the time in question.

Regarding continuity of the self/mind/soul over time, I think it is unsupported to say that there is none, rather that we do not fully observe and understand the basis of such continuity. I have a similar problem with the arguments, generally from theists, that the soul is not material and transcends the physical universe. We are approaching an understanding of how consciousness emerges, though haven't yet fully pinned it down. This is that mind is a product of brain activity which is a complex series of parallel and sequential chemical reactions. Hence, the continuity of self is dependent not only on the molecules, but their locations and interactions as well. It is a painting, not a box of paints. The continuity here lies in not the molecules of the brain, these are interchangeable, but their relations one to another. This is the ship of Theseus only a million times more complex. The self is continuous because we recognize that organization of matter as the self and while the atoms may change, the organization doesn't.

The identifying continuity of the bacterium is our recognition of the organization of complex bio-molecules being examined as a bacterium. The individual atoms change, the bacterium persists.

Quote:Am I the only person who finds that strange?
No, but I consider it a condition of my existence not under my control and so resolve to carry on regardless.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
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Messages In This Thread
Free Will, Decision making and religion - by FreeTony - March 14, 2015 at 5:36 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by robvalue - March 14, 2015 at 5:44 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by RobertE - March 14, 2015 at 6:49 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by FreeTony - March 14, 2015 at 6:58 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 14, 2015 at 9:32 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 10:43 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 14, 2015 at 2:19 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 14, 2015 at 4:00 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 14, 2015 at 7:09 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by FreeTony - March 14, 2015 at 7:25 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by robvalue - March 14, 2015 at 7:31 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Aoi Magi - March 14, 2015 at 8:01 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 8:38 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Smaug - March 14, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Angrboda - March 14, 2015 at 4:41 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Angrboda - March 14, 2015 at 5:15 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Angrboda - March 14, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 11:09 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Mudhammam - March 14, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 15, 2015 at 6:58 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Ignorant - March 16, 2015 at 9:55 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Smaug - March 14, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Smaug - March 14, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by JuliaL - March 14, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Angrboda - March 14, 2015 at 7:19 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by Smaug - March 14, 2015 at 7:44 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by robvalue - March 15, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by h4ym4n - March 16, 2015 at 6:18 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by vorlon13 - March 16, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: Free Will, Decision making and religion - by robvalue - March 16, 2015 at 9:59 am

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