How Muslims believed earth was spherical long before anybody mentions it.

[WinterHold]

Rhythm

S

ome did, some didn't. Different cultures had different models (and competing models existing within these cultures). Erathostenos had, as is most likely already mentioned, managed to measure the circumference of the earth by 200bc. Amusing story to that, when you really consider it, the manner in which he did this (or, to his mind did this) leaves no room for doubt that the earth is spherical (course, no one would have a ready means to determine whether he was right or not for a long time - and he may not have realized it himself...who can say all these years later, eh?). So, while the jury in the ancient world was out as to whether earth was this or that (and it's hard to blame them, they had limited means) - measurements were being made with the assumptions. Again, co-option and incorporation are to be expected. It would happen whether it was a desired outcome or not, but also, knowledge is beneficial to society - and it's been the business of empires to promote that sort of thing, particularly when they can use it to further their own interests. These two things, imo, account for both driving motives and over-riding circumstances. They had use, it was available, someone needed to steward the works, it furthered the interests of the state, it furthered the interests of people within the state - and there were more of "those people" with "that knowledge" than there were of the expansionary caste. So here we are, or, rather...there we were. I don;t think that there are any examples of a civilization such as that -not- having done the same. Hell, Rome was brilliant at this - they pretty much took everything, down to the paintings on the walls...and worked it in.

What an awesome alternative path that you created our of your own creation. And by that I mean, the path of the "competing" models. Actually, in every civilization I see scientists (pretty rare ones) appear from within the certain empire, to find out awesome things, just so the whole knowledge gets lost in wars and plunder, for your information it was burnt, rather than learnt from, take the mongol invasions to both Muslim and European lands, or check the crusaders. Matter in fact, the books and knowledge came from spain, not the Catholic invasions ; because the crusaders did view the Muslim science as evil and "unholy", check that history a little more. Though science theft mainly, took place when spain fell under the inquisitions.

Check the chinese crossbow & ancient rockets, then see how ideas actually do travel on a very, very, very low velocity.
Check the huge difference now, between superpowers & developing countries, see the huge gap that is there.

Imagine a world, where internet didn't exist, half of the world isn't even discovered, history proved that the only competition was in war equipment.

So the competition thing, in some ages yes, requiring some types of sciences yes (like medicine & chemistry), but you know for certain that comparing models & this "university atmosphere" didn't actually exist in the ancient world until very late stages.

Conquistadors? I think you're getting your genocides mixed up. I wouldn;t know what stories were told to the children of conquistadors...you'll have to ask them. We're not talking about "my story" -which is much smaller and further along in time..in any case - we're talking about the story of the formation of islam and the early islamic state - and also it's subsequent interactions with other states, I didn't choose the path that history took.

So.........?

Matter in fact, no. I truly feel away & far from that history to even bother. Well, the son doesn't carry the sin of his father, that's my concept about it.

So, that story is not actually their property or marvels creation. One of the evilest ideas humans can think about, is expansion using war. Well, they never learn. Heck even ancient Egyptians tried it, I mean weren't that the same story, every stupid race walked this earth told ?

Eventually, Rhythm I talk above race. I think you shall also understand me in that context.

Successful conquerors who incorporated the useful bits of the cultures they assimilated. I suppose you could call it theft if you like, hrugs:

Seems, to me, like muslims are taking care of burning other muslims at the stake, at present. The quran didn't really need any more help than the bible has in that regard. Both are less and less relevant for their followers as time passes. The books burn themselves.

Actually, you still think in this mentality. That's why you can't understand me.
The Middle East's mess has nothing to do with religion, everybody knows it comes down to cash & nationalism ; every person knows it. The Middle East is witnessing a fight between many newly-spawning nationalities, it's enough that the Libyan flag actually changed, ISIS is trying to form a state, In Yemen the Huthies are also on their way to form a new nationality...etc.

That's the main reason you see people getting bombed. Hey check the history of world war 2, which was a conflict between arising nationalities -despite the kingdom of japan being an empire it didn't matter-, I guess you'll change your mind at that time, from Europe to Japan itself passing by Egypt where the British actually fought Ze Germans.

If there's some issue you have, with europeans.....you probably ought to take that up with a european...any of which would be happy to explain to you, that I'm not one of them, lol. Terrible things have befallen muslim communities and states. Terrible things have befallen all communities and states. I don't know that I could really determine which of the various methods of execution and torture that have been traditionally used by human communities and states is the worst - I wouldn't wager as to who had it worst, or that this could even be quantified. Most of all....I see absolutely no relevance to our discussion. Enlighten me?

Sadly, the context required it.

Believe me in my head, I see it as human x & human y . Maybe that's a thought you had beforehand ?

The relevance was the context, and a small reminder. As I remind with such a crime, I do also talk about Muslim crimes Though, all of it because I have a concept that people here (especially like you) must know : as a Muslim, I must get over myself and rise above categorizing into this and that, I'm not god to judge who's good and who's evil, though I can only refer to the wrongs I see.
So yes, I sometimes mention stuff with stinky details. But sadly it's how our planet is.

But the way you formed your words, mmmm no I don't agree.

I'm not really sure, after having read your remarks....what you took issue with in my response....other than "Europeans!". Maybe I missed it? Medeival europeans did shitty things to muslims, is that it? Agreed, it was their stock and trade, they did shitty things to each other and themselves, they did other things as well...this is all part of that same story - you aren't opening any eyes with this. So? What does that have to do with how and why we might find a claim of a spherical earth (hey...any measurements, by chance, like Eros all those centuries earlier..that would be a bonus)?

(if you wanna do some euro bashing I;m totally down..we can make a thread!)

Because the context required that, dear Rhythm. Let me give you an example :

When the Umayyads started to get weaker, the Abassid order started to rise. As the Umayyads committed massacres, and became so corrupted, the Abassid order actually did wage a counter campaign, slaughtering thousands of the Umayyads and their supporter...etc.

Do you see a common theme up there ? The word Umayyad for example ? or Abassid ?

That's, they call context. Read it now :

When the started to get weaker, the order started to rise. As the committed massacres, and became so corrupted, the order actually did wage a counter campaign, slaughtering thousands of the and their supporter...etc.

Do you see ?
I hope you saw..