(April 2, 2015 at 2:36 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Atheists claim there is no evidence and then contort themselves attempting to explain away facts (evidence) in favor of theism.If you regard "the universe and people exist" as a "fact in favor of theism" then I can understand why you feel the way you do. However, neither of those is a fact in favor of anything. They simply demonstrate that the universe and people exist, not how either got here. Claiming its the result of a creator because it looks created is both circular and not compelling at all, since few things in the universe "appear created" except through the credulous eyes of the theist. I don't use the fact of existence as evidence of the lack of a god. The fact that we lack any evidence of god is sufficient. If you have something more than emotional or circular beliefs, you are welcome to present them. The forum does not lack for attempts to prove any of at least a few different gods or versions of god. The inability to produce one is not due to a lack of effort, at least.
The "looks designed" and "fine tuning" arguments aren't poor because I want them to be poor. They're poor because they rely either on emotion or on flawed reasoning to work. The fine-tuning argument is particularly weak, as it assumes a great many things that we either do not or cannot know, and it also assumes that god is somehow restricted in his capabilities, which seems odd if we are to assume that he created reality itself. I find that, like most theistic arguments, those are used because they're the best of a poor set of options. Since god has inexplicably decided to disappear and leave humanity with, at best, an ambiguous set of instructions and a universe that is remarkably self-sufficient, it's pretty confounding to try and determine who he is and where he went. Until he decides to show up again, I am content to live as if he was never there in the first place.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould