Couple of clingers in my de-converting

[robvalue]

Nic: I don't pre suppose any "holy book" is fairy tales. I conclude that they are most likely fairy tales, there's a big difference. You would do the same about any fantasy book you picked up, regardless of whether you knew who wrote it, when, or why. If I found any reason to believe they might reasonably have any truth to them beyond the mundane, then I'd be happy to admit it. But I don't.

I understand it must be very hard to see my point of view, just as it's hard for me to know what it's like to be indoctrinated, because I never have been. (I'm assuming you were, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's not an insult, I recognise it as the equivalent of abuse so I feel sympathy.) So I appreciate my attempts to be rational and logical may appear to be something quite different to how I intend them. All I can do is tell it like it is, to the best of my knowledge and understanding. I'm not trying to trick anyone, only to encourage critical thinking and logic. I have nothing to gain by "getting more atheists" except the satisfaction that I helped someone through something difficult and helped free them from the shackles of religion. But if people just think about things I'm happy, and clearly you are doing so.

When you use the "But what if [scenario]" argument to try and make part of the bible seem possibly real, I understand the tendency to do that because you're so used to thinking that it is real and the characters in it are real. But to me it's no different from saying "But what if Lord of the Rings actually happened and Sauron was defeated but not destroyed. He could be gaining in power, and this is causing all the evil in the world. Every evil thing just shows how much more powerful he is getting". I can't definitively say "No that didn't happen and isn't happening" but I don't need to, because I have no reason to think it actually is happening. We have limited time in life, so there's no point spending it on ideas and claims that have no logical support behind them. There are infinitely many!

If you want to beat religion and see through it, that is the mental shift you need. Don't ask "How do I know this isn't true?" (the argument from ignorance fallacy); instead ask "Do I have any good reason to think this is true?" (the sceptical stance). Find out what the real reasons are you believe things, and evaluate those reasons. If you believe something, you have a reason. It may be a good or a bad reason. You may not even be aware what the reason is until you start analysing your thoughts.

If the reasons to believe are good, they will stand up to scrutiny, so there is nothing to fear from enquiry.

I apologise if I come over as anything other than just wanting to help and discuss. I try my best to be helpful, and to understand the theist position. I appreciate I won't always succeed at this, having never gone through it myself.