Good and Evil

[dahrling]

Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, huh?  Twenty points.

I completely agree that the main point for the creation of religion was for order.  Other reasons range from people wanting to believe in an afterlife to people coming up with supernatural explanations to the unknown.  In terms of the Vikings, they would still have died in battle like regular people.  However, I do not think they would have sought death and war so eagerly if they didn't see dying as glorious and honorable (since they believed in Valhalla).

I agree with your opinion on what keeps atheists from doing whatever they want.  That isn't to say that none do, since everyone is capable of doing what they want, no matter their religion.  But yes, most people don't do things that they view as bad, which is mainly due to law and what is accepted in society.

Ethics can be changed, sure.  Though it would take quite some time for them to be changed on a large scale.  Take for instance, the fact that we live in a world where, in most places, it is wrong to kill.  Sure, there could come a time where it is socially acceptable to kill (though unlikely).  But that change would take a very long time to take affect in everyone's minds.

Right, but how would that change come about? For example, in the case of WWII and the Holocaust - death was seen as an acceptable "solution" for Jews. As a result, millions died. Of course, using our conscience we know this is wrong. It doesn't have to be explained. You just have to realize that there is no real logic behind it. It was just hate. I don't think there is ever truly any logic behind killing, except in the case of self-defense. But otherwise I personally cannot see any other time death can be considered to be fair or good. 

I think good and evil are only judgements that humans make about things. Nothing and no one is intrinsically good or evil. We decide what we think is good and evil on an individual basis.

As humans we seem to have a general trend to label certain things evil such as random acts of murder, and as civilisation develops rape, assault and theft too. These seem to be pretty universal. 

But I'm sure there have been many people who most would consider evil who genuinely thought they were being "good", or at least justified.

May I offer some examples? When the Catholic church tortured heretics. When Muslims stone people for "sinning". When Jews used to stone them for the same reason. When the people overthrew the French government during the French revolution and killed the nobility. They all thought they were doing the right thing. But they weren't. Why? I think it always comes down to violence. And what is violence?

"Violence is defined by the World Health Organization as "the intentional use of physical force or , threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation" 


I believe all evil roots from violence and ignorance. With education I believe we can, for the most part, eradicate it. Of course, there are always those who are gravely mentally ill and who need medical help to overcome their desire for violence. But for most of the population, all it takes is education. We have evidence of this. Countries that invest heavily in education, and that tend to be secular, are the ones with the highest human development levels. The least violence. The longest and happiness lives. 

Good is about kindness and alleviating suffering. Evil is about harmful sadism, cruelty and causing needless suffering.

Very different. Can't really torture someone to death and admit you are doing it for purely sadistic reasons and then redefine that to mean good. If that's a point of view you must be too illiterate to read the dictionary definitions. The words good and evil actually have meanings that in the real world relate to the values and well being of people.

I agree, which is why I stopped believing in god. I could not believe in a god who claims to be good but who is violent. If he is love, and if he is good, than how can he hate? How can he be violent? It is just complete antagony.


If you are very sick you may not understand what you're doing (same thing if you're far too ignorant). Today we still have "honor killings" in Muslim countries. They believe they're doing the right thing. But we know they're not because their god doesn't exist. They have faith in him, even though it isn't logical. And in many Christian countries we have other types of violence. But the most secular countries tend to be where violence is lowest. But how can we convince people there is no god? We can't. Just like we can't convince them unicorns don't live on the moon. How do we know they don't? Because we know unicorns are manmade myths. There is no religion based on unicorns. There could have been. Anyone can make something up and tell it as though it is true.  When people realize their religion is based on mythology with no real logic behind it, then they will finally wake up. Because religion is based on faith. And faith is a belief held with no proof. We may not yet be able to completely disprove their beliefs, but we might be able to shake up the foundations of their creed so that they can analyze what they hold sacred and reach their own conclusions using their conscience.