The Trinity Explained

[IceSage]

Shows how little you know about God and scriptures.

No, it shows how little YOU know about scriptures. In fact, recognizing that the 3 entities that make up the Trinity, are all one entity, is the key point OF the Trinity and understanding the death of Jesus.

So God was sacrificed, but not God? Leave the "Son" and "Father" out of it, as we know they're two separate entities in a way. However, you typed it out yourself, they're both GOD.

How is it possible to leave out the Father and Son, you also watch to many movies about gods outside the Bible. Read the NT and you will find the answer there.

It's very possible to leave out the "Father" and "Son," in your case for example. Both the "Son" and "Father" are "God." Again, your own knowledge of the bible is certainly lacking, and you're suppose to be the Christian here. You can't even grasp the concept that's suppose to bring you salvation!

Why do you assume that everyone who discusses something with you, somehow attributes everything to TV or movies? I've read the New Testament, trust me. I've read the Bible cover to cover. I've discussed the bible and examined it. You're using non-sequitor logic, instead of actually proving or presenting your point.

Instead of accusing someone of not having knowledge, and attributing it to television, movies, or other media... How about you point out where that person is wrong, and then show them how they are wrong. You have a bible setup perfectly to reference verses... However, whenever Christians are at a standpoint where they can't actually give an intelligent answer back, to make for adequate discussion, they instead go off topic, use a non-sequitor, or give a strawman argument.

Again, I state what I stated when I first posted. Both the "Son" and "Father" are both one entity, God. This IS from the New Testament. Don't tell me to go back and "read the new testament" when this is exactly where I'm taking it from. Do not reply back with, "This -Media- corrupts your understanding of Christianity." or anything similar, because that's a cop out and frankly, not even a very good point for discussion.

We're on the topic of Christianity's "Holy Bible." So that's what I'm discussing?

Did I mention Zeus at any point when talking about Jesus, or God? Did accidentally start talking about Ra?

No, I didn't. So don't start saying stupid things like you've been saying. Learn how to discuss and debate, not argue as if you're a child.

Prove to me using scripture how God created man with flaws, the reason I ask for scriptures you yourself have said it's the only place to find things about God.

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

So, perfect beings screwed up... Doesn't seem so perfect to me.

Those perfect people were given the freewill to make choices and they made the wrong one. God told them if they ate from that tree it would bring death, He gave them a warning and they chose to ignor that warning. It was not a design flaw it was disobedience on their part. Freewill is in no way a design flaw.

If they were perfect they would not have made the wrong choice. Can you say that 99% of what God does is the "wrong choice?" No, because God is suppose to be Perfect. Thus, there are only two possible ways this can happen:

1) Everything God does, no matter how anyone else views his actions, is always perfect, even when considered imperfect. Thus, every action he takes is a "perfect action." Thus, if he decided to kill women, children, and babies (which he has) those actions are "perfect" no matter what, as he is a "perfect being."

2) God is the model for "perfection" -- And anything he does or expects, is perfection. Anything he does not like, is imperfect.

Thus, Adam and Eve weren't perfect in either cases, or else they would still be perfect, and there would be no "fall of man" or original sin.

Applying Adam and Eve to #1:

Adam and Eve, as perfect beings, both make the choice to disobey God, and eat the fruit. This action, however, does not suddenly corrupt them and make them imperfect. If they're perfect beings in the definition of example 1, then this action was a "perfect action" -- And they've done nothing wrong.

However, this is not the case, as they die spiritually and eventually die physically, thus, they are imperfect. You can't be Perfect and Imperfect at the same time, thus they must have started out Imperfect, or else they would not be able to fall victim of this trickery, and they would not suffer sin, or the ill effects considered to be the "fall of man."

Applying Adam and Eve to #2:

God creates Adam and Eve, and VIEWS them to be Perfect upon their creation. However, they eat the fruit, and God views them as imperfect. However, God created them to BE perfect, which means if they are now imperfect, they were never "perfect" to begin with. Especially when you attribute the fact that God is all knowing, and sees all. God knew this would happen, and let it happen anyway... So they were IMPERFECT before he even created them, and considered them "Perfect."

However, also, God's actions are always "Perfect." Creating Adam and Eve, was something perfect. Knowing they would fall, also means that this too, is perfect. To God, the fall of man IS PERFECT.

But if they're perfect, then that means they meet God's standards, and thus, sin is perfect, etc.

However, we know this can not be the case, since God views them, and all man, as IMPERFECT. He viewed this before he even created them. Thus, he views something "Perfect" (anything they do must be perfect thereafter) as something "Imperfect." (not to God's standards.)

Since they are not to "God's standards" -- And also, since God judges mankind for eternity, as God is eternal, then that means, they are not perfect, and never were perfect.

Shall I list all the passages where humans end up dying? To die doesn't seem "perfect."

If you wish, please give only the book, chapter and verses that way it want take as long, also do not forget to include all the verses about the death of Jesus.

So you already know it would take too long, so I don't even NEED to list them all. If humans are perfect, then they would not die.