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The Trinity Explained
#23
RE: The Trinity Explained
(September 20, 2010 at 11:44 pm)annatar Wrote: And somehow I've got the impression of that the christianity was a monotheistic religion...
If God the Son is not God the Father then you have at least two different gods. correct me if I am wrong..Big Grin

Christianity is the only faith that tries to be monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time.

There are three "parts" to the Christian god, which are all separate yet part of the same being:

1. The Creator ("father")
2. The Begotten ("son" or Jesus)
3. The Within ("The Holy Spirit")

Now Christians have a poorly understood idea about the inter-workings of these parts, which was the subject of debate among all the different Christianities in the first few centuries prior to the Council of Nicaea in 325. Some of these early Christians (Marcionite) thought Jesus was a separate and higher god. Some (Ebionite) thought Jesus was just a man who was possessed by the spirit of Yahweh. Some thought he was an apparition or an illusion sent by God (Docetic).

Christology was a problem for the early Christians. Jesus could not forgive sins or be prayed to for redemption unless he was God (see first commandment). But then if he's God, who is he praying to? The earliest Gospels (Matt, Mark and Luke) all clearly treat Jesus as a separate being. He speaks of God in the 3rd person, prays to God in the 3rd person, and is introduced by a booming voice from the sky (presumably God) in the 3rd person.

The solution (such as it is) and ultimate compromise (which it certainly was) was the Trinity. Jesus is God and also not God. When Jesus is praying, that's when he's not God. When Jesus is forgiving sins, that's when he's God.

As you read the Bible, you can see the progression from Jesus being a prophet (in Matt, Mark and Luke) to being the incarnation of Yahweh (John). The "advanced theology" is what leads me to think John came much later when they needed a Gospel to justify the Trinity.

The "Holy Spirit" was an interesting addition to the mix. Described in Acts, the Holy Spirit is a piece of God that allegedly inhabits the hearts of those who accept Jesus, allowing faith healing, speaking in tongues, etc. This is why some of the more loopy Christians think they can heal or cast out demons. You often hear them say "in the name of the Holy Spirit". What they're doing is invoking the power of God they think (or act like they think) lies within them.

Muslims have a different idea of the Holy Spirit. I think they understand it as revelation for angel Gabriel (or "Ja-bril")

At first glance, Islam seems like a more rational version of Christianity, since they jettison the whole Trinity nonsense. I've heard Muslim apologists make that claim ("Judaism is God 1.0, Christianity is God 2.0 and Islam is God 3.0"). The big problem I see with Islam is wouldn't God have gotten it right the first time?
(September 20, 2010 at 3:58 am)Tiberius Wrote: Also, I don't think it's much of a sacrifice if after you die, you get to be a all-powerful superbeing.

I wonder why the resurrection was necessary at all.

If Jesus is Yahweh incarnate, then Jesus is nothing more than a "human suit" or avatar of Yahweh. Once that body has filled its purpose, why resurrect it?

If Jesus is not Yahweh, then Jesus would simply go to Heaven upon death and again the bodily resurrection isn't necessary.

Either way, it seems a moot point except for all the drama. [mock realization] Hey, maybe that's why it's part of the story and this is yet another indication that all this is just a work of fiction!
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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Messages In This Thread
The Trinity Explained - by FadingW - September 18, 2010 at 3:24 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 18, 2010 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by krazedkat - September 19, 2010 at 10:28 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - September 19, 2010 at 11:00 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Tiberius - September 20, 2010 at 3:58 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Ashendant - September 20, 2010 at 9:40 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 20, 2010 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 20, 2010 at 11:47 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 21, 2010 at 10:57 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 22, 2010 at 12:37 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 23, 2010 at 7:42 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 23, 2010 at 8:43 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by theVOID - September 20, 2010 at 6:55 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by padraic - September 21, 2010 at 12:04 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 19, 2010 at 11:06 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Entropist - September 20, 2010 at 8:35 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by josh.niles - September 20, 2010 at 11:52 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by chatpilot - September 20, 2010 at 7:24 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by annatar - September 20, 2010 at 11:44 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - September 22, 2010 at 2:09 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 20, 2010 at 11:51 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by krazedkat - September 21, 2010 at 12:00 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 21, 2010 at 12:42 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Entropist - September 21, 2010 at 12:57 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 22, 2010 at 8:18 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 26, 2010 at 10:08 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by theVOID - September 26, 2010 at 10:25 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 27, 2010 at 3:51 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - September 27, 2010 at 12:26 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 27, 2010 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - September 27, 2010 at 10:20 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 28, 2010 at 3:36 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by The Omnissiunt One - September 27, 2010 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - September 28, 2010 at 1:46 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tavarish - September 30, 2010 at 10:49 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 1, 2010 at 12:29 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 1, 2010 at 4:52 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 2, 2010 at 1:28 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - October 2, 2010 at 2:38 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 2, 2010 at 9:59 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - October 3, 2010 at 1:06 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 5, 2010 at 1:15 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 9:40 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2010 at 11:57 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by downbeatplumb - October 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 5:07 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2010 at 5:32 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Zen Badger - October 3, 2010 at 1:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - October 4, 2010 at 11:03 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Zen Badger - October 5, 2010 at 6:26 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Zen Badger - October 2, 2010 at 3:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 2, 2010 at 10:09 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 2, 2010 at 10:12 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Zen Badger - October 3, 2010 at 1:25 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by KichigaiNeko - October 3, 2010 at 1:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 28, 2010 at 7:53 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - September 29, 2010 at 11:51 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - September 30, 2010 at 1:06 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - September 30, 2010 at 1:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 1, 2010 at 12:09 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 1, 2010 at 12:27 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2010 at 7:08 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Jaysyn - October 1, 2010 at 7:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - September 30, 2010 at 11:48 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tavarish - September 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - September 30, 2010 at 5:14 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tavarish - October 1, 2010 at 11:07 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - September 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 1, 2010 at 12:54 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 1, 2010 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 1, 2010 at 8:14 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 2, 2010 at 2:14 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 2, 2010 at 10:09 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - October 2, 2010 at 3:18 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 3, 2010 at 2:31 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 5, 2010 at 2:36 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tackattack - October 5, 2010 at 6:18 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 11:42 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 5:11 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 5:25 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by The Omnissiunt One - October 5, 2010 at 5:26 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2010 at 1:07 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 2:20 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2010 at 5:34 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by theVOID - October 5, 2010 at 3:28 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 4:28 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 4:56 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 5:16 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 5:34 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 5:56 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 5:37 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 5, 2010 at 5:45 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 5, 2010 at 5:55 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by theVOID - October 5, 2010 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 6, 2010 at 3:34 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by theVOID - October 7, 2010 at 5:30 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 5, 2010 at 6:02 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by downbeatplumb - October 6, 2010 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Watson - October 7, 2010 at 4:09 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 7, 2010 at 4:23 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 8, 2010 at 9:42 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 5, 2010 at 11:34 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2010 at 11:49 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 6, 2010 at 12:11 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by tavarish - October 6, 2010 at 11:40 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Anomalocaris - October 6, 2010 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 6, 2010 at 1:02 am
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 6, 2010 at 2:13 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by IceSage - October 7, 2010 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Godschild - October 8, 2010 at 9:39 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by gmjackson - October 7, 2010 at 2:01 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by Minimalist - October 7, 2010 at 3:29 pm
RE: The Trinity Explained - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2010 at 6:26 am

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