(June 14, 2015 at 11:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote:I appologize for complete overraction, and being a jerk to you.(June 14, 2015 at 11:23 pm)Aroura Wrote: Saying they don't really believe it (Like you know what they believe or don't believe, jerk thing to say BTW) is not the same as saying they don't behave as if they do.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. To me, the word "seems" is equivalent to saying "behave as though." That's because I don't think being highly judgmental of the behavior of others (kill him, punish him, etc.) accords well with the idea that nobody, including a criminal, has the capacity to do other than he has done. I don't really know people's internal dialogue, ideas, or beliefs. However, based on the incompatibility of the ideas of determinism with ideas about harsh punitive justice (which require free will to make any sense), I think it's reasonably doubt whether the idea of behavioral determinism is really more than just something people talk about in philosophy forums.
I hope my position is clearer now.
And I agree, the position of punishment does not accord well with determinism, and those who claim to be determinists need to think it through a bit further if they still advocate for punishment, including the death penalty.
To be clear, I do not advocate punishment. I think it makes no sense even if there is some kind of compatabalist "will", because it is so constrained it hardly counts as free. So really the argument about free-will, constrained will, etc is almost moot. As has been repeated, we can't remove the veil even when we realize it's there. But it does, I think, help people realize some issues with our current justice system, like what the OP asked. Does punishment work? Does it help society in ANY way? If not, then why do we keep doing it? How can we better deal with criminal behavior? These are the important questions that lie behind the questions of free will and determinism, I think.
Punishment, revenge, and justice are archaic relics of religious history, IMO.
I am a huge advocate of rehabilitation, early detection and prevention, and prison as a last resort, because it is generally bad for society to let untreated murderers, rapisist, and so forth to run around continuing to harm others.
Anyway, again sorry, I'll try and not derail the thread with my hormones again.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
