1. Religion is the foundation of society.
Let's assume for the mo' that this is true (it's debatable, but let's play along). History has produced one helluva lot of societies, some intensely religious (the states governed by god-kings, some of the early American colonies) and some significantly less so (modern France, some of the Greek city-states (exempting Athens, natch). The degree to which a society is religious seems to have precious little effect on how successful it is, but it DOES seem to have a deleterious effect on the well-being of it citizens. In other words, the less bound-up with Godism a society is, the happier its people seem to be (check of claim: not a lot of non-religious Swedes are opting for a move to Uganda).
As far as atheists being against churches being a 'productive community', I'm unaware of a single atheist who objects to a church that feeds the hungry or houses the homeless. But since there are secular organisations that do the same thing, it seems pretty clear that being religious isn't a requirement to being 'productive'. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that church members who go out of their way to do these 'good works' would continue to do them, even if they lost their faith.
2. Religion is the foundation of morality.
Ok, but morality seems a pretty fluid concept. Other than the basics (don't kill people, don't steal things, etc), religious has produced some pretty horrific moral precepts - burning witches, not taking your kids to the doctor, and so forth. The fact that some non-human animals (crows, bonobos) exhibit moral behaviour seems to indicate that religious belief is not necessary to behave morally.
3. Science (or atheists) cannot tell us right from wrong.
If true (and it isn't), so what? Religion doesn't exactly have a stellar record on telling right from wrong, either. Slavery is 'right'. Killing disobedient children is 'right'. Enslaving virgins captured in war is 'right'. Puh-lease.
What enables us to tell right from wrong is the human experience. Religion, it is true, has often codified these things, but writing down something that everyone already knows doesn't really give you the right to claim a monopoly on virtue.
4. Religion made history.
Partly true, and a cruel and bloody history it has been. But this is hardly a plus for religion. And the notion that atheists are unaware of religion's impact on the history of our species is simply laughable.
Boru
Let's assume for the mo' that this is true (it's debatable, but let's play along). History has produced one helluva lot of societies, some intensely religious (the states governed by god-kings, some of the early American colonies) and some significantly less so (modern France, some of the Greek city-states (exempting Athens, natch). The degree to which a society is religious seems to have precious little effect on how successful it is, but it DOES seem to have a deleterious effect on the well-being of it citizens. In other words, the less bound-up with Godism a society is, the happier its people seem to be (check of claim: not a lot of non-religious Swedes are opting for a move to Uganda).
As far as atheists being against churches being a 'productive community', I'm unaware of a single atheist who objects to a church that feeds the hungry or houses the homeless. But since there are secular organisations that do the same thing, it seems pretty clear that being religious isn't a requirement to being 'productive'. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that church members who go out of their way to do these 'good works' would continue to do them, even if they lost their faith.
2. Religion is the foundation of morality.
Ok, but morality seems a pretty fluid concept. Other than the basics (don't kill people, don't steal things, etc), religious has produced some pretty horrific moral precepts - burning witches, not taking your kids to the doctor, and so forth. The fact that some non-human animals (crows, bonobos) exhibit moral behaviour seems to indicate that religious belief is not necessary to behave morally.
3. Science (or atheists) cannot tell us right from wrong.
If true (and it isn't), so what? Religion doesn't exactly have a stellar record on telling right from wrong, either. Slavery is 'right'. Killing disobedient children is 'right'. Enslaving virgins captured in war is 'right'. Puh-lease.
What enables us to tell right from wrong is the human experience. Religion, it is true, has often codified these things, but writing down something that everyone already knows doesn't really give you the right to claim a monopoly on virtue.
4. Religion made history.
Partly true, and a cruel and bloody history it has been. But this is hardly a plus for religion. And the notion that atheists are unaware of religion's impact on the history of our species is simply laughable.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
