Quote:I think "influential atheists" is a more accurate term than leaders.There is no universal leader for atheists - Some atheists don't even know who Richard Dawkins is - But these people are all leaders to a certain organization and I think that's what the OP meant. I'm more concerned about people's actions than what they claim to be or stand for - If a group treats a person like a leader, listens to him/her like a leader, takes his/her word like a leader's, I will assume that person is a leader. Certainly not an atheist leader (literally), but a leader to some atheist organizations for those who want to follow it.
Quote:You're wrong. Dawkins is more famous for being an educator since he's been doing it for decades.He only wrote the God Delusion in 2006. He is famous for it too, and he is widely regarded as the most famous atheist in the world, but that is not a bad thing, nor does it say anything about him as an author. He should be praised for helping more people reject religion but not much more than that, in the "atheist" department - nor is anyone thinking otherwise, I don't think.And? Arguably he is not an excellent over the top scientist, there are people in the world who have done more and people don't know their names - There are people who probably know who Dawkins is and can't name one or two less known nobel prize winners for X or Y field. I don't care that is an educator, he is never (or almost never) mentioned as such and his best selling book is The God Delusion. His followers on twitter treat him like a Messiah and they're always posting tweets on how awesome and right he is, to the extent they claim he never commits logical fallacies which is an irrational idea because we all do it.
I'm not saying he is a bad scientist or person but he doesn't deserve the pedestal of influential atheist - What he does, and New Atheists do, is to criticize the Abrahamic god and Abrahamic religions (woooh, that's so hard to do, right?) and because of that they think they're superior. It's not a big deal, those religions are extremely easy to criticize.
I know Dawkins is a scientist and Hitchens was a journalist, etc, but their atheism and anti-theism is what made them more famous internationally. Dawkins gets mostly lectures to speak about atheism or instead to speak about evolution as an opposition to creationism and religion
Quote:Anyway, we don't measure people for what they're famous for, but for their actual contributions. Dawkins is a pretty smart man, he contributed some as a biologist and is a well established scientist. His opinion is not to be simply swept under the rug, just because you're going through a phase now.Why? You haven't even read his most famous book, so how do you know so much about my premises and conclusion? Do you have a crystal ball to guess if something is true or not? Yes, he is, and so are many other scientists, that's irrelevant considering the credits he gets from his fanclub. I respect people's contributions to science (why shouldn't I?) but that doesn't mean I think they should be treated as an absolute smart source.
I haven't read Dawkins much though(not at all, actually). I only know of him through second sources and through waching many videos with him either debating, talking, being interviewed or taking interviews, etc. So I wouldn't stick my hand in the fire for him. But your presumptions are still wrong - I'm fairly sure about that.
Quote:As for Harris, I'm pretty fucking sure you're wrong there. Before telling us we should forget about him, maybe you should try refuting everything he ever said or wrote in print. Go ahead, I'll be waiting.I have done that many times on this forum, so I'm not going to repeat myself. I never said Harris sucks, he makes good points like other people do - I just don't think he is as right as he thinks he is, not to mention he believes in the Eurabia conspiracy theory and thinks people who disagree are setting him up with political correctness.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you