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Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
#35
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument?
(July 17, 2015 at 4:37 am)SamS Wrote: No other religion has ever made me ever doubt Christianity.
Then it shouldn't be difficult to see why apologetics have failed to convince -me-, they've failed to convince you as well.

Quote:I view Judaism as incomplete Christianity; ending with the Old Testament is just a huge cliffhanger because so many of the prophecies stated in it are fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Deuteronomy 18:15, as one example). OT ends with promises of great things to come, yet for Judeo-believers, never will. Islam is a corrupted extension of Christianity, whose denial of fundamental Christian doctrine (Resurrection, Christ's Deity, etc) leave the same OT prophecies unfulfilled and therefore incomplete ("pierce my hands and feet" in Psalm 22:16, yet Muslims don't even think Jesus was crucified). 
-and I view your beliefs as co-opting weirdness referent to crystal balls and magic words, but that's okay, there are worse things to be.  

Quote:What about Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age spirituality? They may have had an appeal when I was agnostic, but they don't affect me anymore partly because the Bible frequently criticizes all other gods. Even the 10 plagues were largely an attack on Egypt's false gods (Numbers 33:4). It denounces those who worship "wooden and metal statues and idols", which can do nothing for us. "Saying...Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth" (Jer. 2:27). I can't trust a religion that allows for many gods and acceptance of other religious beliefs. It's paramount to saying there are multiple truths, and "ways to your inner self, mannn", or whatever spiritual nonsense buzzwords they spout. Does the Bible make us narrow-minded? Yes, only so far as the Bible is exclusive itself.
The ten plagues were an attack on egyptian gods?  Strange, seems like they were an attack on the egyptian people....don't recall their being a single divine casualty in that story.  You have trouble accepting a tolerant faith, and the acknowledgement that truth can be arrived upon from many angles - this is unsurprising.  At least you understand that you're narrow minded and accept it, even if you blame it on the bible......which is ridiculous.  You're intolerant and narrow minded because that's the kind of person you are, not because a book made you that way. Just as I'm rude and aggressive, and not because I read the army field manual...it's just who I am.

Quote:Atheism? How about contradictions in the Bible? Those affected when I had a weaker faith, but I have never found one that cannot be resolved in context, or by the right verse sometimes in another book entirely. The Bible is not a weapon against itself. Mythology, other Christ figures in older religions? That was another good one. I've heard it repeatedly mentioned that the god Horus was also born on December 25th, even though no where in the Bible or any historic writings does it say Jesus was born on December 25th, so it's becomes a lie more than anything. In fact, most claims of similarities to other gods are made up in attempts to debunk Christianity (Source). It should be remembered that OT prophecies of Jesus are older than many of supposed Christ clones; take that as you will. The Bible doesn't stop at other religions, it has quite a bit to say about atheism, especially in the Book of Ecclesiastes.
Yes, the bible has alot to say about alot, but who cares unless someone can demonstrate that what the bible says about atheism, for example, is true?  -And if it is, then it no longer matters whether or not it;s in the bible, and it would be true or false regardless of it;s presence between those pages.  Jesus is older than supposed Christ clones?  LOL, which ones, if you don't mind me asking, and what is that supposed to mean, which gods to you seem like jesus clones, or..if you prefer, which "jesus clone" arguments were so compelling that you had to find an explanation?  You familiar with the term syncretism?  There's a fairly straightforward explanation for why "jesus clone" gods exist, and it has nothing to do with which god story came first, nor does it actually -matter- which god story came first in any case.  You seem to take that to mean something that it probably doesn't.  Perhaps I could help you to arrive upon a less shaky "defense of christ" on that count?

Quote:But best argument against Christianity? Making the Bible seem fallible was a pretty big one for me, though a friend of mine once told me he was too far "into science" to believe anything. I'd say scientific arguments can be made to work against any religion.
-Seem- fallible?  It -is- fallible, demonstrably so, but why would that matter?  It's a book, people wrote it.  Finding mistakes, contradictions, or narrative discontinuity shouldn't be surprising, and wouldn't be indicative of anything other than the fact that it is a book written by human beings, and books written by human beings often contain mistakes, contradictions, and narrative discontinuity.  None of that implies or establishes that there is no god, for example.  This has been a long running point of interest for me, as I mentioned earlier...apologetics seems to waste quite a bit of it's time here.  Why are the faithful swayed, one way or another, by what amounts to no more or less than editorial competence?  Got any insight on that?  

Quote:Seriously, to Christians, the Bible is the best proof of itself. Want physical evidence of God? Have a Bible, it is both the claim and the proof of the claim. May seem absolutely stupid, but the age of OT compared to the NT, how one reveals every little secret of the other (especially if you study it), makes the entire thing completely believable. If we only had the NT, I wouldn't believe it either.
I sincerely hope that this isn't true, if that's the best proof, there is no proof.

@Pops......jesus man, you've circled the drain awfully fast.  Dead through disbelief.........?  Rolleyes
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument? - by SamS - July 17, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: Honest Question to Atheists - Best Argument? - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2015 at 9:30 am

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