Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 28, 2024, 8:36 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Jesus and Miracles
#31
RE: Jesus and Miracles
(August 17, 2013 at 12:57 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Were the meteorites an unlucky coincidence...to bombard that particular strip of earth?...where along the line does God stick his hand into the universe?
As I understand it, God influences every single event at all times. I do not see God as a deistic watchmaker that set things in motion and stands aside.
Personally, I think analogies based on a mechanistic view of the universe are horribly outdated, although I occasionally make them myself.
(August 17, 2013 at 12:57 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Since ...every event to be naturally explainable...then it means ...God interfered *indirectly* when he set the universe in motion"....doesn't that mean that certain people ...were deterministically doomed?
Well, not from the very beginning of time, no. And not of necessity. The natural order seems to be much more dynamic that once believed, most certainly at the subatomic scale. It could very well be that very very small pertubations could ripple up with massively unpredictable results (from a human perspective at least). At least that's the idea behind chaos theory.

I realize I'm engaging in a large measure of rationalizing, i.e. this his how miracle might possiblely, just maybe work. At the same time, your view of natural law is already a deterministic one. Initial conditions of the universe have already established what my responses to you will be and vice versus. My point in I am not just defending my belief in God, but also my belief that "I am not a number; I am a free man."

Secondly, the dominant view of causality not so cut and dry as it seems on first blush. The dominant idea is that event A leads to B leads to C etc. I do not think that progression is justified. The past no longer exists, so how can something that does not exist act on that which currently does exist? I do not have the answer. I find the problem interesting. (You may recall my previous thread about the discontinuity of reality at the Plank Scale.)

Instead, I see the relation of cause and effect as one of identity. The lighted match being the cause of the fire and the fire being the effect of the match are actually the same condition differently described.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 16, 2013 at 3:18 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by NoraBrimstone - August 16, 2013 at 3:58 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 16, 2013 at 4:03 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Godschild - August 16, 2013 at 5:49 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Something completely different - August 16, 2013 at 5:51 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Cyberman - August 16, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Brian37 - August 16, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 16, 2013 at 7:32 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 16, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 16, 2013 at 11:54 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 17, 2013 at 4:43 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by freedomfromforum - August 17, 2013 at 5:54 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 16, 2013 at 10:55 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Godschild - August 17, 2013 at 12:37 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 16, 2013 at 11:25 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Brian37 - August 16, 2013 at 7:28 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 16, 2013 at 11:37 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 17, 2013 at 12:06 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 17, 2013 at 12:57 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 17, 2013 at 10:02 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Brian37 - August 18, 2013 at 7:07 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Captain Colostomy - August 18, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Tonus - August 19, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 16, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 16, 2013 at 11:44 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 17, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 17, 2013 at 12:22 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 17, 2013 at 5:49 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 18, 2013 at 1:07 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 17, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by freedomfromforum - August 17, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 17, 2013 at 6:15 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by freedomfromforum - August 17, 2013 at 6:24 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 17, 2013 at 8:16 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 17, 2013 at 10:49 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Drich - August 18, 2013 at 12:15 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 18, 2013 at 12:29 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by NoraBrimstone - August 18, 2013 at 6:54 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Cyberman - August 18, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Drich - August 18, 2013 at 7:53 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 18, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Bad Writer - August 19, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 20, 2013 at 7:25 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Bad Writer - August 20, 2013 at 8:53 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 23, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Brakeman - August 20, 2013 at 7:36 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 19, 2013 at 9:33 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Neo-Scholastic - August 19, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 19, 2013 at 7:46 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Jackalope - August 19, 2013 at 8:28 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 19, 2013 at 8:34 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Jackalope - August 19, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 19, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 21, 2013 at 12:19 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by downbeatplumb - August 19, 2013 at 2:15 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 18, 2013 at 2:08 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 18, 2013 at 2:11 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 6:49 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 18, 2013 at 10:38 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 6:57 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 10:43 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 18, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by fr0d0 - August 18, 2013 at 11:43 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 11:44 am
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 18, 2013 at 7:28 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Captain Colostomy - August 18, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Minimalist - August 19, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by Cyberman - August 21, 2013 at 3:23 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by FallentoReason - August 21, 2013 at 8:47 pm
RE: Jesus and Miracles - by downbeatplumb - August 22, 2013 at 5:15 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Three in five British adults say miracles are possible zebo-the-fat 15 1993 September 30, 2018 at 2:32 pm
Last Post: GUBU
  Miracles in Christianity - how to answer KiwiNFLFan 89 18611 December 24, 2017 at 3:16 am
Last Post: Nay_Sayer
  And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. vorlon13 14 3076 August 1, 2017 at 2:54 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  How does "Science prove that the miracles of the Bible did not happen" ? Emzap 62 11252 November 4, 2016 at 2:05 am
Last Post: dyresand
  Jesus' imperfect miracles. Brakeman 32 7134 June 25, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Last Post: robvalue
Rainbow Bloody miracles from a bloody cult. Bob Kelso 22 4788 March 26, 2015 at 11:24 am
Last Post: KevinM1
  Christianity has gotten Lazy with the miracles: Spooky 59 14260 December 25, 2014 at 11:19 am
Last Post: Nope
  In Christianity, Does Jesus' Soul Have Anything To Do With Why Jesus Is God? JesusIsGod7 18 7245 October 7, 2014 at 12:58 pm
Last Post: JesusHChrist
  miracles and circumstances k2490 35 8787 June 2, 2014 at 1:06 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Miracles KUSA 30 6576 February 3, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Last Post: KUSA



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)