RE: Convert me if you can
January 3, 2011 at 3:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 3, 2011 at 3:46 pm by Rayaan.)
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I'll just pose the question are you certain that the Hadiths are so universally accepted as true by mainstream Muslims?
Yes, hadiths as a whole are accepted as true by mainstream Muslims, but not all of them are accepted as 100% true because there are varying degrees of authenticity depending on the number of narrators, the isnad, meaning, translation, logical consistency, and other aspects of the hadiths. Therefore, the early scholars of Islam developed a way of classifying the hadiths according to their level of authenticity. And there are a vast amount of literature and Islamic books on the topic of hadith classification. Here's a link with a brief introduction:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/...ences.html
The Muslims who reject hadiths and only accept the Quran are amongst the minority, they are in a fringe group of Islam. They are mostly the modern revisionist Muslims.
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: If that's the case, I'd consider it to be the analog to the Book of Acts of the Apostles, which has been incorporated into the Bible as canon but nonetheless serves the same purpose. This argument's a wash.
The Hadiths have never been incorporated into the Quran as the Book of Acts were incorporated into the Bible.
Also, hadiths are not analogous to the Book of Acts because the many of the hadiths have been passed down with a sound chain of transmission and they were narrated by many different people whose exact names and their relation to the Prophet (pbuh) are also recorded, and from a scholarly perspective, The Acts of the Apostles clearly does not have the same level of authenticity as the statements that are compiled in Sahih al-Bukhari. You shouldn't even question about this anymore.
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: The first contrasts the case for Islam with the case for Christianity.
The second deals with what these religions preach, represent, the nature of their god, the nature of their afterlife, the nature of their moral code, and what they do to the people and nations that adopt them.
One is about whether or not its true.
The second is about what these religions are.
Clear?
Thanks for clarifying that. But still, it's wrong which I'm going to explain in the comments below.
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: The Christians have a slick package of supposed eye-witnesses and the traditions of a church established by Jesus and his apostles and disciples who would have personally known him or lived within his lifetime.
Oh, so the "slick package" are the supposed eye-witnesses of the apostles and disciplines of Jesus. This means the Muslim package is not as "slick" then (which is a good thing).
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Muslims have some guy who came along much later who wouldn't have known squat about Jesus except what he was told from the very people who he claims got it all wrong. Clear?
Then tell me, exactly what are those things which Muhammad said that people got it all wrong about Jesus?
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Fine but do any of these eye-witness accounts offer any testimony about Jesus?
The eye-witness accounts do not offer any testimony about Jesus because the Muslims didn't even see Jesus. The hadiths only trace back to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
(January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Again, it's about who knew Jesus better.
1. God knew Jesus better, not the people.
2. What Muhammad knew about Jesus was revealed to him from God in the same way that Jesus knew things about the previous prophets.
(January 1, 2011 at 1:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You are desperate to believe Rayaan. Only when you lose that desperation will you be able to see clearly.
Not desperate to believe, because I already believe. I would never try to intentionally fool myself into believing as if I'm "desperate" to believe. What's the point of it?
(January 1, 2011 at 9:33 am)padraic Wrote: Either show me some evidence or stop wasting my time.
Oh yeah, that's the ultimate killer sentence which all theists are afraid to answer ...
But it's good to know that you still haven't given up on being a skeptic. So, just keep your mind open like this because you never know when you might find some evidence.