RE: Atheism is a religion
January 9, 2012 at 3:52 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2012 at 4:46 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: Don't believe in God...
acceptable responses include "fuck you, God is a mythical figure fools worship, and God is not real."
non acceptable responses: "I don't", "I lack belief in God"; they mean the same thing, and they both are invincibbly ignorant.
I'm not a paragon of humility, but I'm too humble to dictate what responses are acceptable.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: Ridiculous. You start by saying you lack belief in some "Achilles" you are aware of. You then go on to state your belief "Maybe there was an Achilles who was a great Greek warroir".. Then you go even further and state more of your beliefs about Achilles, "[his] life and abilities were considerally embellished.
Next, you make the statement, "I don't believe there was a 'real' Achilles"
- this is an inverse of the statement , "I believe that achilles wasn't real". The statement, "I don't believe" is technically a misnomer because we can't not believe in things we are aware of. Everyone uses it all the time to aviod cognitive dissonance, including me. Just realize that you can't not believe (lack belief) in things you are aware of. it's impossible.
To believe in something is to accept that it is true. Perhaps you should consider why it is so important to you that two phrases with different grammatical meanings: 'I don't believe in X' and 'I believe there is no X' must mean exactly the same thing.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: You then go on to state that you believe there could have been a real Achilles...
- Incredible. somehow you believe Achilles wasn't real and believe that he could have been real at the same time... yet the world continues to spin.
I don't believe Achilles was real, but I believe he could have been real. You can't just change 'I don't believe Achilles was real' and 'I believe Achilles wasn't real' and have the same meaning. Say I estimate the odds of an historical Achilles on whom the myth is based at 30%. Clearly, if that's my estimate, I don't believe he was real. However I put the odds of him having existed at above zero percent, so I don't actively believe he wasn't real. I'm accounting for a certain likelihood that I could be wrong if I believed he wasn't real.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: Next you state that you "don't believe there was never a real Achillles".
- My heads starting to hurt. So you also believe that at some point in time there was a real Achilles, or "wasn't not one..."
Your head is hurting because of your invincible ignorance regarding the fact that 'I don't believe X' and 'I believe not X' don't mean exactly the same thing.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: Finally you end by again stating that you lack a belief about whether Achilles was real, after stating you believed he wasnt, that he might have been, and that he was.
-
B.R.A.V.O.
I didn't state I lack a belief about whether Achilles was real. I lack a belief that he was real (for purposes of the example). For instance, I might believe that it is less likely that Achilles was real than that he was. That's a belief about whether Achilles was real. That's not the same thing as believing that he actually was or wasn't real.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: -Why don't you just admit you don't know, pick one belief and stand by it, or just continue to hold all these contradictory beliefs and just understand that they are contradictory and that it's ok (which, by happenstance, would be agreeing with me)?
Honesty. I don't think I know enough to believe one side or another, but I do think I know enough that active belief in either side is unjustified. I think position A is less likely so I say I don't believe position A; but I have reservations about categorically adopting position B as true, so I don't say I believe position B. I just say I lack belief in position A, because it's a true statement and saying I believe position B is an untrue statement.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: I forgot what we were even talking about after that Achilles thing... oh yeah, invincible ignorance. You're committing it if you state that you lack a belief in something you are aware of... Still. Whether it is about God or a toaster. You have beliefs about everything you are aware of.
Again you conflate belief about with belief in. There's a reason you do that. And I don't believe it's honesty.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: "God exists."
You are now on notice.
You can rationally say you dont know what you believe: agnostic
Most agnostics know what they believe and know what they know and know the difference.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: You can rationally say that you don't believe God exists (that you believe he does not). : atheist
You can't rationally say that 'don't believe' and 'believe not' mean the same thing.
(January 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm)amkerman Wrote: You can rationally say you believe that God exists: theist
You can hold all three beliefs simultaneously and it's ok.: human
You no longer can "lack" belief that "God exists".: unconscious.
The list of things I've heard of that I don't believe exist is very long, yet I'm conscious. I forgive you your misconceptions however, at this point it is clear that you are just not capable of understanding the difference between 'not believe' and 'believe not'. I doubt it's your fault. One person can see a speck on a windowpane that is quite invisible to someone else, it's not the fault of the person that can't see it that their visual resolution isn't up to the task of perceiving the difference. But that doesn' mean the window is clean.
