RE: Does the Bible Contradict Itself?
July 28, 2012 at 3:31 pm
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2012 at 3:40 pm by Undeceived.)
(July 27, 2012 at 9:50 pm)spockrates Wrote:Ephesians 2:13 adds, "you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ." The grace (as Paul repeats throughout his writings) is shown in Christ's sacrifice. It is his sacrifice which atones for our sins.(July 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Ephesians 2:8-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."Why, yes--the one you quoted is ambiguous! Tell me please, Undeceived: What is this grace of which Paul writes?
This page has more:
http://deeptruths.com/bible-basics/salvation.html
Do any of these seem ambiguous to you?
Quote:I'd say that one cannot truly know that she actually is righteous unless she first knows how to become righteous. I'd say wisdom is greater than faith, but do you disagree?I'd say one doesn't have to know they are righteous to be righteous. And the people we speak of do believe they are righteous by Jesus, they just include works too. If they were to phase out Jesus completely and make works the solitary means of salvation they would be in the wrong. Make no mistake-- an individual on this fence is prone to falling on the deceived side. It is hard to keep a balance for and against scripture. The actual doctrine of Catholicism is vague-- it claims Jesus' sacrifice as the one way to God, but then says we should do more to fully open the storehouse of grace given to us. The question of what works, and how much works, and sin and what balance gets us to heaven has never been clear. True Christians will focus on the Jesus part of the doctrine; nonbelievers will decide to 'earn' their way to heaven, in reality not earning anything but an inflated ego. Catholicism tries to satisfy conservatives and liberals alike. They are farther from scripture, but not altogether in the dark. If this concerns you, be assured most Catholic churches weigh in on the salvation by grace side. There is always a movement to make Catholicism more like Protestantism, but politics and pride get in the way. The denomination we should focus on is the Bible. And the Bible highlights grace. Give me any number of verses which you think highlight works and I'll explain them.
Quote:So do you think one is saved by grace through faith alone? Or is something else besides faith (such as repentance) required?Grace is God's action toward us. Our faith response has two parts: Knowledge of what he did, and a full-minded acceptance of his death/resurrection. Knowledge alone achieves nothing. And one cannot accept what Jesus' death/resurrection means to them without also repenting. Repentance is a byproduct. The Holy Spirit convicts new believers the moment they accept the Good News, and they feel the need to repent (so I've heard). If they do not feel the need to repent, they don't accept Christ.
Quote:Yes, grace is God's method, but once more: What is grace? and does Jesus say faith is all that is required to receive this grace that saves us from hell?Romans 3:23-26 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood— to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Wages are what you earn. Our sin earns us death, in the way that a homicide brings us the death sentence. Grace is another word for mercy. By showing grace, God does not hold us accountable for our deeds. But to remain perfectly just, He cannot simply write off a pardon. Instead, he sends a sacrifice in our place to take the punishment for us. As Jesus says in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."