(August 9, 2012 at 9:32 am)spockrates Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='320892' dateline='1344454295']
@ Spockrates, I agree that the two verses are not a contradiction, I also agree that deception is not always lying, it can be a strategy. However as I've said and continue to, in Ezekiel God is not directly deceiving the prophet, God allows the prophet to be deceived by his own prophecy through his vanity. God does not reveal the true to the prophet, this is to punish the prophet because the prophet is deceiving Israel.
Spockrates Wrote:Yes, I understand what you believe, but (please forgive me for being so slow to catch on) I still don't understand why you believe. I'm having trouble seeing how these words,
"... I the LORD have deceived that prophet..."
can mean anything but the LORD had deceived the prophet. The only way this might be true would be if the biblical translators King James commissioned translated the verse wrong, I think. What do you think? Should we look at a more modern translation to see if it clears it up for me?
This is from the New American Standard, this is the translation I use when studying, it is considered the most accurate translation by most scholars. I knew I should have gone and read the verses that go along with this verse, sorry I got lazy instead of looking for the truth.
Ezekiel 14:9"But if the prophet is prevailed upon to speak a word, it is I, the LORD, who have prevailed upon that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.
The verse is actually saying that God urges the prophet to speak according to this translation.
The ESV uses the word deceive also and I do not know what word the NIV uses in this verse, I seldom use the NIV now.
If you read verses 1-11 I believe that verse 9 will make more sense to you. I read it this way, many in Israel were worshiping false idols (gods) and then they would go before a self proclaimed prophet, and ask that prophet what God has to say. God then urged the prophet to speak his false words to these people, so that He could punish all that were involved in idolatry. Ezekiel is one book I do need to study more, it is a book of judgement and can be difficult.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.