Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[Drich]

The Only definition form of dictate that even hints at MURDER, is to require or determine necessarily. Which by no means equates to murder unless you've got murder on the brain. In my opinion, just so you know, murder is Never necessary or required. You asked me,

I have absolutly no Idea why you left the defination of dictate, or what you are talking about here.

There is never a single moment in time that I don't have the choice to murder, or to not murder and there's never only murder as the only choice in stopping ones' attackers, even in your hypothetical situation. I could simply choose to lie down and die, if I wanted. Which isn't what I'd do, I'd fight till I die, but even if you said I had a gun in my pocket, I wouldn't kill my attackers. I'd incapacitate them. Now you know my answer, but that doesn't change the fact that the question is one-sided and not based in reality. There is ALways something you can do besides murder. Always.

It is my hope and prayer for you that you are never placed in a situation where your principles are tested. That you remain far removed from truly evil men as possiable, so that you can maintain your perfect world idealism.

If someone was raping me and my family on a weekly basis, and there was NOTHING (again, not reality) I could do about it, I'd probably endure it the rest of my life. Killing isn't justified, because murder does not equate to rape. If I killed even in self defense for a murder: it's unjustified because they have yet to murder me. Thus if I murder them, my murder score would be 1: theirs: 0. Not fair, despite their intent.

Wow, Isn't this a bit hypocritical? You would allow the Spiritual death of everyone in your family, to go on a weekly date with some monster and his friends? Or have you not considered what being raped every week does to a persons mental state? For you (the one who has the power to stop it) It ceases to be rape, and becomes a date. But for everyone else who does not want to be violated in such away they die alittle more each time they are raped.

If I knew they were going to come murder my own sister and again I have nothing else besides murder to resort to(unrealistic): I'd still be wrong in killing them, in my eyes, because no human has the right to take anothers' life. I'd do everything in my power, besides killing, and probably die in the process. In the real life, there's no way to know you or someone you love is going to be killed, until it happens. So to jump the gun and kill in defense in my humble opinion, is completely unfounded. Only defensible actions are justified (and again to be clear for you absolutely: NOT murder).

Finally! So their is a distinction between Murder and "defensible actions?" and Murder is not always murder as you previously stated?

Of course if God killed the Canaanites (ripping the children from their mothers' wombs), then he is forcing something to happen a certain way, because he
"knows" what will follow their decisions. Even if he's just punishing the parents through the children, it's still not the childrens' fault that the parents chose as they did.

This is not my position. I stated that if God knew the future and knew those children would destroy Humanity as we know it, would He not be obligated to kill them?

You just said "Defensiable actions" are not murder. And while your inablity to know what someone may or may not do, God is not bound by your limitations. Thus placing Him in a position to KILL those who would destroy Humanity's chance at salvation.

God not only wrote the movie, he made the movie, he is the movie, and for that reason alone he controls every bit of what happens in the movie. Even if he put limits within the movie then let the people play out according to their own choices, it's still his movie he's making, because he is the one who put the people in that situation with stipulations to endure.

Do you have any scripture to back this up, or is this just how you have been taught to think? After all we are speaking of the God of the bible. As such must remain with in what the bible teaches when speaking of God or conceed the fact that the conversation has moved from the God of the bible to you own personal version of Him.

I can't see how murdering a baby, whom you would know is going to be a race of hitlers, is justified one bit. If you kill that baby, your score is 1: theirs: 0. If anything, the alternative to killing them would be rehabilitation of some sort. Take the babies from the evil parents, for instance, instead of killing them. Redundantly inappropriate, for a "moral just and loving" god.

Because Death of a human being in of itself is not a crime/sin in God's eccnomy. Our lives extend well beyond what we can see. for us death is our end. For God Death is our birth into eternity. So to Kill is not a sin. It only becomes a sin when we kill out of our own desire to do so.

You still don't have me convinced about morality, as you can tell.

The fact that you have a 'morality' outside of God's stated righteousness Means that you have your own personal sense of righteousness. Or SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS. As such know Christ as witnessed throughout the gospels is not a respecter of the self righteous nor the personal philosphies that they use to replace God's righteousness with.


will be back to address the rest later...

FYI if you leave a thread mid discussion and you post something several days later, it's common courtesy to let the other person know. especially if you hijack the thread and place several pages of filler inbetween.