(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Either you have no idea about any other distro or you are lying. The only thing similar between every distro is the Linux Kernel. That is it.
WTF? I'm ignorant or I'm lying? You arrogant [expletive deleted]!!!!
No Adrian ... I am neither ignorant or lying! I have used MANY distros (would you like me to list them?) and many versions of those distros including Ubuntu & Kubuntu (my favourite being OpenSuSE) and if you know Linux as well as you appear to you will know that it is modular in construction! I'm no expert but as far as I know everything is built around the kernel, the OS built on top of that, the graphics (X11 or Xorg not sure) on top of that and a Window manager (such as Enlightenment, GNOME, KDE, Fluxbox, xcfe) on top of that.
(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Ubuntu uses Gnome whilst others use KDE or xkce for the desktop environment, as well as using Alsa for sound whilst some still use OSS. The apt-get install system from Debian is in Ubuntu, but things like Fedora use "yum", and Gentoo uses emerge or paludis. So already the distros are very very dissimilar.
Way to go to demonstrate your own ignorance!
Ubuntu does yes but not only is Ubuntu available in other forms with other desktops such as Kubuntu which is effectively the same OS but with the KDE window manager but MANY other distros feature GNOME such as Debian (choice between various desktops), Foresight, Mandriva (again a choice), SuSE/OpenSUSE (choice), Gentoo, Red Hat/Fedora and more minor distros as well so basically you're talking crap. Yes I am aware that various distros use varied means of installing software (SuSE uses YaST) but in overall look and feel a Linux distro with an identical desktop manager is much the same as any other.
(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: True, you cannot use Linux to it's full potential without some knowledge of the system, but that was never the point I raised. Ubuntu can be used by anyone, from the PC illiterate to the Windows fanboys perfectly well. Sure, you might not get into complex things with the kernel, but you can easily configure your system thanks to the numerous programs people have written for it.
And that wasn't the point that I made ... the point I made was that to use Linux EFFECTIVELY you need to know the OS from a more technical POV. I don't deny the essential competency of the OS nor the fact that there are many competent programs available free for Linux but as many are available for Windows and many others are cross-platform (go check Sourceforge.net). A Linux distro, written as is by many disparate individuals, lacks the cohesiveness of Windows and your blithe assurances that the system can be easily configured are not born out by the reality of the support system for Linux ... I know this, I have tried and referred to it earlier.
(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: As for usability, Windows has always been more unstable, with BSOD's and viruses at every turn. Linux can run for years without needing rebooting (unless you want to upgrade the kernel) and has no active viruses to speak of.
And you are talking ancient history ... I don't even know when it was I got my last BSOD, back on NT probably ... XP, 2003 and Vista are all incredibly stable OS's as long as they are run within manufacturer's specifications. They are also exceptionally versatile. Obviously Windows has viruses targeting it ... everyone targets the top dog either for antagonistic reason or because they are only interested in the bigger market.
(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Driver support is great, and wherever you heard otherwise is a bad source. Most things you need to use (printers, keyboards, mice, usb pens, external harddrives, webcams, etc) all work as soon as you plug them in (no need to install drivers at all). Nvidia have released drivers for their graphics cards, which work perfectly. I have no idea which forums you have been too, but all the official forums (Linux forums, Ubuntu forums, Gentoo forums etc) are great for asking questions and getting answers. The IRC channels give great live support as well!
Wherever I have heard? Get real ... I'm basing this on MY personal experience e not on rumour and innuendo as you appear to be.
Most commonplace hardware has adequate driver support yes but driver support is nowhere near as good as you claim ... have you ever tried getting some fairly esoteric bit of kit working under Linux or perhaps something that's relatively new on the market? Trust me, I have and getting support for anything like that (especially gaming kit) is an absolute [expletive deleted] under Linux. You'll have noticed I said "adequate" when referring to Linux driver support and there is good reason to do so ... Linux drivers are the equivalent of Windows inbuilt drivers, they work, they’re stable but they're not the best ... the best are (almost without exception) from the manufacture's website and can improve system performance by leaps and bounds and I'm sorry to inform you old chap but most of them don't bother to support Linux, the Linux community must do so (if indeed they do it at all) and the drivers they do come up with, whilst competent, just aren't exceptional in full hardware utilisation terms. If you think I'm wrong ask yourself how varied, say, nVidia video hardware is? Now ask yourself how many varieties of driver there are in the Windows world and how many in the Linux one? Do you wanna know why that is?
Yes Adrian, the official forums are EXACTLY where I go (and many other places as well) and I am getting just a little bit pissed off with your implied assertions that I don't know how to get support, I'm an ADVANCED IT PROFESIONAL so even if I don't know a specific subject all that well I have a fairly good idea where to go to get the assistance I require!
(October 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm)Tiberius Wrote: As for games, you evidently have no experience with Wine or other such emulators. I was playing Spore the day it came out on my Linux machine. Direct X is installable in Wine, and so are a multitude of other gaming accessories. Of course, I don't doubt that these games are better on Windows, since they were written for Windows. This is why I always have Windows installed as well. Linux is a fine operating system though.
No I don't but I am well aware that the vast majority of recent Windows games DO NOT work under emulation as they address specific OS and hardware aspects that Linux simply does not handle all that well, in addition the fact that one wine group (can't remember it's name) considered it a huge triumph to have gotten Office 2003 or whatever running on Linux is an indicator of just how difficult it can be to get certain Windows programs (and I'm not even talking about games here) running under Linux. And, of course, I could just throw back at you the fact that you can likewise get Linux programs running under Windows using programs like Cygwin. But the point I am making is, whether you like it or not, serious non-console gamers (and games are a major reason for buying a computer even for a family PC) will use Windows, Linux WILL NOT be the first choice and with good reason!
Oh yeah ... I told a good friend of mine (also an IT Professional working with servers as I do) about this discussion and pointed him to the URL. He had this to say:
Ben Wrote:I think the poor man’s a bit delusional. I have a Linux system. It doesn’t run anywhere near the range of software I need, it is much less stable than my XP box and it’s almost impossible to configure so I’ve left it ‘out of the box’ and restart it any time something changes and I can’t work it again. My XP machine can use my network at home and then if I close the lid for an hour it’ll pick up where it left off. The Linux machine can’t, it doesn’t integrate properly with the hardware (remember this is the OS it was shipped with) so if it is hibernated it can never restore the network when you want to use it again. It can’t even remember the WEP key so I have to add it manually every time. It won’t run the two pieces of software I use the most, even with an emulator, because they need direct access to the web in order to register and the emulators supposedly don’t permit this. All the available open source software is adequate but none of it is the best available and the interface is often a bit weird with things in strange places where you don’t expect.
As a web-browser and occasional WP system it’s fine but don’t confuse it with a computer because it just isn’t one.
I can't be certain but I believe his computer is configured with one of the Ubuntu variants.
I would also point out one final thing about our "discussion" and that is this:
AH: Ubuntu is magnificent! Windows is crap! Ubuntu is awesome! Windows is crap! Ubuntu! Ubuntu! Ubuntu! Rah! Rah! Rah! Windows is crap!
KYU: Linux is a good OS, so is Windows. Go ahead and try Linux but I suggest try it first before you use it properly so why not virtualise it and find out?
I'm sorry but it seems to me you're acting like a spoiled child, an evangelist upset that someone dared to criticise his latest toy but, as far as I can tell, I'm the one advising caution to someone who is a Windows user, I'm the one being more reasonable.
Kyu
