This really got to me

[Drich]

This is one of the paradoxes of religion that believers just can't seem to explain so they shove it in a mental drawer and prefer not to talk about.

I love rifleing through mental drawers that atheist like to put around Christians! let see what we can shake out.

So Christians for example say that God loves and wants us to know him

This is 1/2 correct.
God Agape' (plural) and does want us to know Him. There is a difference between Agape' and love I will assume you know it unless you ask about it.

and yet there is so much confusion and ambiguity about what the truth is.

Actually their isn't. Just need to know where to find it. And then follow it even if it leads you to question your very foundations of belief.

How is this explained? One of the ways certain Christians (mainly Calvinists) come to explain the confusion is predestination, stating that only those who were predestined to be saved will come to understand the true path, so God DID communicate clearly... but only to those he intended to save.

This is a very good explanation as it indeed works with the explanation I gave using the word agape' instead of the universal word 'love.' It shows a separation between those in whom God loves with out measure and those He does not.

And if you question the justice of predestination, they say "who are you to judge God!?"

Good answer but I would like to take it a step further. In that God already knows if left unabated where you or a given soul would wind up. So why not pick the best among that group? Or at least those who would work best together in a society He Himself is Hand building.

Another way to explain it is that those who don't adopt the faith of the "true" sect or denomination have certain moral faults that prevent them from seeing the truth.

IF one were made to be Calvinist at heart yes... But here's the problem with the Calvinist doctrine.. "understanding" is given over to the individuals to work out themselves.. The problem arises that salvation becomes a work or mental exercise of an individual, and not act or judgement of Christ. Salvation is not something we do or even obtain in this life. All mentionings of the word salvation even in revelation points to a time not yet come. In short we are saved at judgement, and the titles we award ourselves?? completely meaningless. It is Christ and Christ alone who decides who is and is not Christian who is and is not saved. There will be millions saved who have never heard the word Christian before let a lone Jesus. Yet they like some of the Calvinist will share the same salvation.

Basically, you're too morally corrupted to perceive the clarity of God's message. How do you become un-corrupted? By adopting the very beliefs you can't understand the truth of in the first place. 

That kinda flys in the face of what Jesus says with the whole A/S/K bit... but with calvin's religion who need Jesus right?

So does religion decrease intelligence?

It does both. it just depends on how far along you are in your understanding of God.

Well, I certainly think it constricts the mind.

At a point yes. At other it offers discipline.

The etymology of the world religion literally means "to bind" it binds your worldview together. But to me it is binding in another sense, it binds people's minds and holds them in bondage from being able to learn things they wouldn't otherwise explore.

My poor narrow minded "thinker.." One does not need religion to bind one's thinking. Look how hook line and sinker-ed most of you are when it comes to the all mighty 'science.'

There are very intelligent religious people, but I think the full potential of their intelligence is held back by religious thinking that is so often caused by emotional and psychological "hiccups" that keep such people stuck in the religious loop.

Oh, the irony.

---

What if this life was about being given enough time to understand your own nature? To understand who you really are. Now, introduce an absolute of God that no one can deny... If you do not come to God unprovoked then your life becomes about earning what you can not obtain, and everyone goes to Hell. As humility and faith are keys to our salvation. Put in an absolute and those keys are no longer needed.

Drich,

You proffer that your primitive serial killer Yahweh/Jesus is an "absolute?" Really?  

Then instead of you running away, as usual, and to prevent you from wasting your life on a myth, why don't you try and prove that your BIBLE Jesus actually
existed in the first place, where at this time,  you continue to RUN AWAY from my challenge to you to prove this point!

If you want to put on your "big boy" pants, the challenge to you is within the thread of; " Jesus did not rise from the dead -- 
My debate opening statement," page number 5, post #44.  

Drich, are you going to run away with more pseudo-christian lame excuses, or are you actually going to follow your Jesus' inspired word and defend
your serial killer Jesus in the fact that he did exist?   "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every
thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5) 

Make your fellow pseudo-christians proud, and don't run away because they are watching, so don't embarrass them, along with your serial killer Jesus! (Hebrews 4:13)

I will be awaiting your prompt arrival to said thread.


Thank you in advance.



b

My 19 year old begal died over the weekend, and i just don't feel like sorting through a bunch a baseless accusation and empty charges trying to figure out what the hell you mean by this that or the other.

I have no problem doing a straight up debate, but seriously little man grow up... serial killer jesus??? really??? and when I ask what you mean... I get more serial killer Jesus.... like I'm supposed to just know how you redefined Jesus, or how you look at some point in time you've twisted or just exactly what you mean...

Just don't feel like untangling your pile of poop at the moment

Maybe if you reword it using common terms or explain what you mean when asked.

Otherwise know sport it is not a 'debate' when you call someone a serial killer and demand that i produce evidence that he is not...

I just don't care to play by your rules, and if that means your other wise saved soul gets lost... Meh, maybe I'll catch the next snowflake on the way down before it melts.