(January 27, 2017 at 11:59 am)Astonished Wrote:(January 27, 2017 at 4:17 am)Little Rik Wrote: Your problem Ast is that you can not grasp the motivations why God does or doesn't something.
You keep on imply that God (if exist) should communicate but to understand why he (she) doesn't communicate with everybody you should also understand how his game works and you do not know that.
Animals follow the instinct so they are driven by that force towards higher degrees of consciousness.
That means towards human life but humans have already got enough degree of consciousness so instinct
play very little importance.
Now humans are not driven by that instinct force anymore and therefore the free will apply in the good or the bad.
Because of that free will God keep out of sight in order to not interfere in their decisions.
Only when humans understand God cosmic game God show up once again and as directions to proceed
are needed God is always there to teach.
This of course is only valid for those who are motivated to reach higher degree of spirituality not for those
which the materialistic game play an important role in their lives.
You're the only one here who's not capable of grasping...practically anything being said here, really. You are a liar and a hypocrite by telling me I don't understand how this works, and you're denigrating yourself and your faith by calling it a game, so stop doing my job for me. Atheists statistically know way more about religions and their holy texts than the actual believers and you are living proof of this. Facts are inconvenient that way, aren't they?
Anyone who isn't a deist is lying when they say they can know anything about their deity. Period. Your holy books are absolutely useless for anything, let alone giving insight into the characteristics of deities, and your spiritual experiences are natural phenomena of psychology. You're claiming to have god's phone number and giving the rest of us the finger telling us we're not good enough to deserve it. You have absolutely no conception of how condescending, arrogant and insulting that is, even if your point is that you're completely full of shit.
Free will is not in any way infringed upon by gods making themselves and their wills known to people. How is it fair to judge someone for failing to play a game by the rules when the rules are unknown? You don't have an answer for this, no religion has any answer for this, it's all excuses, and pathetic ones that make you look mentally slow when you repeat them with no further contemplation whatsoever. I made a thread about how unbelievably stupid it is to think that free will could in any way be affected negatively by having the clearest possible message from a creator and supervisor. If anything free will is only damaged by the anarchic chaos created by this contradictory and demonstrably false set of ideologies. Without full access to the information, decisions cannot be made with full consent and when you remove consent you get...well, rape comes to mind. But I doubt you can make the relatively simple mental leap there.
No creator is doing any favors to their creation by keeping them completely in the dark or letting them try to figure it out on their own, or giving the message to one or just few fallible humans who will intentionally distort or suffer from memory imperfection or have to put selective interpretation upon? I mean, that's inviting the 'power corrupts' thing to rear its ugly head, and the god of the bible is the epitome of power corrupting, hence his character as a bloodthirsty barbarian. Any action done in the name of a creator is upon the head of the creator if it leads to negative consequences and they failed to intervene and prove that such is not their will when that would literally be the only possible way to convince the person that their convictions are simply not true. Just saying that god has a get out of jail free card for being a negligent, uncaring asshole isn't an answer, and only makes you share the taint of how horrible your master is because one can never tell when you're going to start emulating them because of something you believe without a good reason and which can literally justify anything because it excludes rationality.
So instead of trying to come up with more laughable excuses for irrefutable points against your theism, how about you actually exercise some critical thinking and concede a few points? Or is the thought of being honest utterly repugnant to you? Honestly, I'm asking. I have no idea what your mental processes are like with all this nonsense spewing forth.
When I say..........not for those which the materialistic game play an important role in their lives.....
I mean anyone whose materialistic game play an important role in their lives not just atheists.
Take Trump.
He is a theist and yet he is stuck in the materialistic game.
One more thing Ast.
To know what is good or bad you don't really need to know that from God although God would be more clear regard that.
By doing certain things you feel good and by doing bad things you feel bad.
The problem is getting more complicated when a false sense of pleasure come from doing bad things
like in the case of a thief that is happy when he steal something but if you keep your reasoning under control you can't go wrong.
And last about God that suppose to keep us in the dark.
It is a natural process that plants and animals follow the instinct while humans use mainly the free will.
God act like a father that guide his kids until they grow up.
Once they grow up is up to them to work out how to live in the good or the bad.
Animals are like kids that by following the instinct follow God wishes but as soon as their consciousness grow up and they reincarnate into humans God stop pushing them to higher form of consciousness.
Now is up to them to sort out what is good that help them to climb higher or the bad that push back down into the animal life.
However if you are smart you can bypass this uncertainly by asking for help.
If you act in sincerity the teacher will show up for sure and everything will work out the right way.