I am about to ask a serious but utterly reprehensible question

[Harry Nevis]

In all genuine honesty...and I just came up with this today, and someone making a threat about hell in one of the threads convinced me it has to be asked. Please, don't hate me, this is not done out of malice or perversion, and is simply a ghastly version of a reductio ad absurdum.

To any person who will tell a child that they are a miserable sinner and deserving of an eternity of fiery torment - regardless of how easy they claim it will be to avoid this (and remember, you still deserve it, you've just been given undeserved mercy via salvation, right? You're still scum but they let you into the country club) - what is stopping you from saying that child deserves to be, say, raped? Surely flesh-searing torment without end is a worse fate, and surely some lava-skinned demon down there is going to get their hands on you at some point, right? So why would you say one and not the other, if one is far, far worse and yet can't be experienced on earth?

I expect the answers will disregard the fact that we are disregarding salvation, and be flimsy excuses at best rather than actual answers. If this does not prove once and for all anyone who ever introduces the concept of hell to a child is no different from a predator, nothing will.

If this was a step too far, just delete it. I'm so disgusted with religious people right now, I can't even separate them from their faith.

I'm a Christian and agree that no one should abuse their child with that rubbish. Unfortunately, people pick and choose what they want to exploit, in the bible and in life. We may be part of a religion, but our relationship with God is personal. And the abuse that you talk about isn't as rampant as you think.

Also you need to separate the "chaff from the wheat"... as in any social setting. As you know, there are "good & bad" in every facet of life. People need to be responsible for their actions. I'm tired of being dragged into the mud, by "our bad" and people that exploit them for their own purpose of destroying the faithful. There are millions upon millions of religious that are good and decent people. So, its time for us (you & I) to root the "bad" out together! Not demonize the whole, because of the extremely minute evil parts.

As far as the scriptures, and premise itself? No one is automatically going to hell just because they don't believe, or are a sinner. That is rubbish. I could point to specifics in the Holy Gospel to give examples of redemption, but suffice it to say: "people choose" where they go in life; and the hereafter! Not bible distorters look for ways to subjugate the weak minded.

There are only 2 things God really requires of us: "To Love God. And to Love one another." You can't be a sinner doing those 2 things, always! Because, you won't be doing any of the other things on "the list" wrongly when you are doing the first 2. "Those are the greatest commandments. All the Law and the prophets depend on those 2 commandments." Matt 22:40,41

And that is why no one religious, or otherwise has any say in another man's salvation, or lack thereof. No one but the person, and God.

You'd think that all these people with their personal relationship with god would be of one mind on scripture and what's right and wrong in god's eyes.

It's almost like they were pulling crap out of thin air...

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If I don't believe in god, then I don't love god. So I fail, I guess?

That's your option. Free will is just that.

So I can just decide to believe?

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Drich, I am sick to fucking death of your incapability to understand that you are also using interpretation and a 'straight reading' of your equivalent of ancient toilet paper is literally impossible, the point being that you can justify whatever fucked-up things you do because the entire idea is irrational, hence why even YOU, a theist, can't convince another theist they are wrong about their interpretation or that X part of the bible is literal and Y part is allegorical. You are a textbook case of every intellectually dishonest tactic theists use in defense of their beliefs, and the psychological flaws created by having to look at the world believing two and two make five. I am truly sorry but you're going to need a better person than me to cure you. I've given you far too many chances to be intellectually honest for once in your life and it's just not happening. I think putting you on ignore is the best thing for both of us since I seem to be having the opposite effect and making you retreat further into your mania rather than making you see reason.

I'm "Astonished" at the irony here. Your charges against me seem more like personal projection that reflect your own views of theology.

Of course, because that's the one of the rules of Christian apologetics - throw out a bunch of unsubstantiated bullshit in order to piss off anyone thinking logically, and then blame their reaction on projection.