Mr.wizard
It doesn't matter if an incident occurred that no human being could do, that doesn't mean god did it. "God did it" is not an answer, you haven't even established it as a possibility until you can establish that this god actually exists. You also must establish the fact that an incident occurred, which in the case of the sun moving around sky you have not done. You keep wanting to use that 70,000 person figure as your evidence, but you ignore the fact that the same sun was visible to millions of people who didn't see anything.
Man, I really butchered that reply, it was directed at PABSTA.
Can you predict an event months ahead of time to exact location and time of day? Of course not. If someone does, the supernatural must be involved. As for the incident actually occurring, I've already posted the text from the newspapers the following day. They were in no hurry to print those articles because they were both known to be anti-religious newspapers. And I already gave samples of testimonials of people who saw the event remotely.
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Since you can't prove that the supernatural exists I don't see how you can make the claim that its necessary for anything.
Why do you put so much stock in the testimonials from the people who said they saw it, you do realize that you wouldn't actually have to be in that town to witness the sun move, right? If you realize that, then you must recognize that there is a far greater number of people who didn't see the sun move, why are they discounted? Your also not only ignoring everyone who didn't see the sun move on that day, your also ignoring the science and what we know about the sun and the earth's orbit.
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I give you credit, Mr. Wizard, for coming up with some good and logical questions throughout this discussion - better than most others I have seen on here. You must realize that the author of the book, "Meet the Witnesses", when gathering data for his book, placed an ad in the newspapers around Fatima to gather his testimonials, and he also contacted people in the US who immigrated since. If he spoke with people in other countries and they said they didn't see anything, that doesn't mean that the incident didn't happen either. I am not claiming the sun ACTUALLY spun, or ACTUALLY hurled toward the Earth, I'm simply pointing out that that was what the people thought when you read their testimonials. SOMETHING happened without a doubt, and that was the best way they could describe it.
As for the existence of the supernatural, that's a no-brainer. Go tag along with a paranormal investigator a few times and you will become a believer VERY quickly. It will scare the living daylights out of you. I personally know many people have been involved and it is NO joke. If you think I'm kidding, call one up and ask if you can go along. Seriously.
It doesn't matter if an incident occurred that no human being could do, that doesn't mean god did it. "God did it" is not an answer, you haven't even established it as a possibility until you can establish that this god actually exists. You also must establish the fact that an incident occurred, which in the case of the sun moving around sky you have not done. You keep wanting to use that 70,000 person figure as your evidence, but you ignore the fact that the same sun was visible to millions of people who didn't see anything.
Man, I really butchered that reply, it was directed at PABSTA.
Can you predict an event months ahead of time to exact location and time of day? Of course not. If someone does, the supernatural must be involved. As for the incident actually occurring, I've already posted the text from the newspapers the following day. They were in no hurry to print those articles because they were both known to be anti-religious newspapers. And I already gave samples of testimonials of people who saw the event remotely.
[/quote]
Since you can't prove that the supernatural exists I don't see how you can make the claim that its necessary for anything.
Why do you put so much stock in the testimonials from the people who said they saw it, you do realize that you wouldn't actually have to be in that town to witness the sun move, right? If you realize that, then you must recognize that there is a far greater number of people who didn't see the sun move, why are they discounted? Your also not only ignoring everyone who didn't see the sun move on that day, your also ignoring the science and what we know about the sun and the earth's orbit.
[/quote]
I give you credit, Mr. Wizard, for coming up with some good and logical questions throughout this discussion - better than most others I have seen on here. You must realize that the author of the book, "Meet the Witnesses", when gathering data for his book, placed an ad in the newspapers around Fatima to gather his testimonials, and he also contacted people in the US who immigrated since. If he spoke with people in other countries and they said they didn't see anything, that doesn't mean that the incident didn't happen either. I am not claiming the sun ACTUALLY spun, or ACTUALLY hurled toward the Earth, I'm simply pointing out that that was what the people thought when you read their testimonials. SOMETHING happened without a doubt, and that was the best way they could describe it.
As for the existence of the supernatural, that's a no-brainer. Go tag along with a paranormal investigator a few times and you will become a believer VERY quickly. It will scare the living daylights out of you. I personally know many people have been involved and it is NO joke. If you think I'm kidding, call one up and ask if you can go along. Seriously.
