Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!

[Aegon]

If you were really honest you'd say you want mostly privitized health care because you want poor people to die. Or never have a chance at making something of themselves due to overwhelming medical debt. But rightwing libertarians live in the same fantasy world as communists.

I know that was harsh, but I don't respect that POV , sorry. I think it's pretty fucked up. Health care is a right and you'll never have a productive work force or efficient market with privitized health care. It's morally and fiscally irresponsible.

I'd consider myself left libertarian by the way. I only believe a free market that doesn't fuck over the individual is one with a generous social safety net, which includes a public health care system that anybody can opt into if they can't afford private. Thinking a society can function with such minimal government intervention is as unrealistic as thinking a communist regime will actually work like the Marxist literature claims it would.

Fair enough. However, could you explain to me why you believe it is a right? I am just wondering.

Because having to go bankrupt in order to stay alive is ridiculous, and dying from a preventable condition because one can't afford to see a physician who could catch it in time is straight-up dystopian. Your health and well-being, very obviously, are important. It has an incredible impact on your quality of life and ability to work. By claiming that health care should be mostly privatized and left up to the market, you are essentially saying that only a certain percentage of citizens deserve to be cared for. The private health care market sans government would not even be a health care system, given enough time it would just kill all lower middle class / poor people. Private insurance companies, when left unregulated, would surely refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions without raising their rates to affordable numbers, and can essentially only offer coverage to those with the least health complications and the most money -- because there is no money to be made in people with a history of cancer, diabetes, or basically any other condition that might mean that they'll need -- *gasp* -- HEALTH CARE. It's a market failure. Private free market health care is not actually health care in any way. 

Then there's the morally bankrupt argument: "If they worked hard, they would be able to afford insurance. I shouldn't have to pay for them." First of all, that's what insurance fucking is. You're paying for other people regardless of whether it's government or private. Secondly, it contributes to the American myth that has been pervasive since the 19th century that hard work will always = success and anybody in a bad situation deserves it because fuck 'em, lazy cunts. But this is so far removed from the truth it hurts. Many are working way more than 40 hours a week but their employers are not offering insurance, or, even worse, they're offering useless expensive junk plans that will do them no good when they really need it. But even then, even if it were true that those without insurance just "weren't working hard enough," who the hell are you to say who does and does not deserve to live, or to have any reasonable quality of life? You're making that choice? Another individual deserves to die or drown in debt because you judge them to be lazy? The "I got mine so fuck everybody else" attitude that's so common among conservatives and libertarians makes me sick. It's centuries of propaganda by our government that has conditioned us to attack one another instead of the people above us. We've been conditioned to accept the shitty situation we're in and call people "entitled" when they snap out of it and realize we could do better.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775760/


In 2009, this study found that uninsured people have a 40% increased risk of death, and lack of insurance was associated with an average of 44,789 deaths per year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15318584

This 2004 study found that more than 13,000 persons between ages 55-64 die due to lack of coverage.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Medical bills are the number one cause for personal bankruptcy in the U.S.

In order to facilitate a productive society, the government has to be willing to foot the bill on health care. There are too many people unable to contribute to the economy because of medical debt, and there are too many people who cannot work because they are not healthy; greater, unrestricted access to health care services will lead to greater preventative care. I appreciated Obamacare for trying to increase the amount insured, but it was a bad system that eventually raised costs for most people. It proved that you cannot half-ass universal health care. The U.S. will inevitably provide government-funded health care for all just as so many other nations do for their people. I know it's going to happen, it's just up to us whether we want it in less than 10 years or 100. Democrats are slowly warming up to the idea, and I credit Sanders for the push. People have a fundamental misunderstanding of universal health care. It can cut costs for the entire population while also making us more productive as a society. 

For the record, I don't support single payer. It wouldn't work here. A secondary public option that can cover everybody in addition to private health care would be the most effective IMO.