RE: Why is religion especially Christianity so widely practied?
February 13, 2019 at 2:41 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2019 at 3:01 pm by Acrobat.)
(February 13, 2019 at 1:46 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Religion's basis is incorrect, so how can the stories about this God's interaction with man be useful? How can the book of Job tell us anything moral? It says that God and Satan made a bet, and killed Job's family and took away everything. The only answer to "why" is that it "glorified God" (and Job gets given a new family -- too bad for the old one). Well, considering that God doesn't exist, how does that little gem come to be useful?
That’s not the take way from the book of Job. The primary drama in the book of Job, is Jobs rejection of a various theodicies, such as suffering being a punishment from God, or for the sake of teaching Job a lesson, etc… all of which he rejects, and none of which the God character in Job confirms, and whose own answer is an appeal to incomprehensible mystery, a purpose which is not Job’s to know.
The central drama might be framed in the gimmick of God and Satan having a bet, but this is more peripheral than central to it’s take away.
Quote:The stories of bronze-age sheep farmers, in a world infested by gods of opposing tribes (but their god is stronger), is pretty much without value. I would much rather read the ancient poets and philosophers than the religious authors.
Perhaps for you that’s true, its just not true for them, or for many believers, who find little values in the ancients poets and philosopher you might like. They find a great deal more value in books like Job, or the story of Joseph and his brothers, of David and Nathan, of Jonah, of Christ’s death and suffering, of Exodus.
For black slaves the story of Exodus, of Christs suffering and redemption were far more valuable than anything those rich ancients poets and philosophers could offer.
Quote:I'll rephrase. Religion does not start with "what exists", but theology does. Religion does indeed start as a personal need for answers and meaning.
Theology by definition is about the nature of God, not of reality. If an understanding of reality plays any purpose in theology, it what this reality, the nature of the world, says about the nature of God.
Whether such a world, reveals a God of Love, or some sort of indifferent being, of malicious being, or even no being at all.
A parallel to theological view of reality, would be something akin to nihilism, declaring the absence of meaning and purpose in our world. The sum total of scientific facts, might lead to one to such a view, but the view itself is not scientific, or reducible to science, regardless if it’s true or not.
Quote:But, the answers get woven into theology, and then get passed down as revealed 'knowledge' to the next generation.
If you believe life has some intrinsic purpose and meaning, then whatever aspects of that meaning you may have perceived or understood in your life, is one you care a great deal about passing on to subsequent generations. You want their lives to be informed by this sort of understanding you’ve acquired through experience and community, so that every generation isn’t starting from scratch, but building on top of the same bricks laid down by their forefathers.
There’s very little more important to me as parent, to pass on that meaning to my children, for them to understand and see it to, more so than anything that might classify as a scientific understanding of the world. I want them to understand how to live in the world, and not merely understand its parts.
(February 13, 2019 at 1:56 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:(February 12, 2019 at 4:24 pm)Acrobat Wrote: No, religion never was a placeholder for science, anymore so then great novels, art, poetry are placeholders for science.
People cling to religions for questions regarding meaning, how one ought to live life, how things ought to be. Religions are about dealing with suffering, our desire for community, about the values and virtues we ought to embody. None of which are scientific questions, since all science provides us is answers to how things are.
Religion explained things until science got it right.
"if all possible scientific questions be answered, the problems of life have still not been touched at all.' -Wittgenstein.
I think such views common among many atheists that you expressed, reveal a very distorted understanding of human beings. Sciences provides answers to questions, hardly anyone is asking.
When some ancient religion begs offerings to a god to keep a storm at bay for men setting out to sea, the purpose isn't to give an explanation for the weather, but to calm the anxiety and dread of those setting out to sea. The thing that people are most deeply wanting to know, are not answers to scientific questions, but those answers for having something to live for, to keep us going and living, rather than wallowing in dread and despair.
(February 13, 2019 at 1:46 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Principles such as 'love your neighbor' are valuable, but it is found in almost every culture. People don't need theology for that. Theology brings in commands, and gods, and worship, and blood sacrifice, and obedience, and a story of eternal torture or salvation. Theologies are built on a foundation of "what exists". They need gods and the interaction of prophets with the gods, as their first principles.
It depends, love your neighbor as some sort of subjective goal, a rule of thumb, one places on themselves, like going keto, or getting off social media, or signing your signature with smily faces etc.. requires no religion. Seeing it as a command, that we are commanded to love our neighbors, as almost all these same religious cultures hold, does.
Theologies and religious ground things like moral values, into being seen as eternal and immutable, as real obligations and laws.