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Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(August 30, 2020 at 1:11 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(August 30, 2020 at 12:36 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I also disagree when you say that his authorship is debated within academia by referring to a passage written by someone not part of this specific academia  

And how is the Dutch theologian Van Manen not part of this specific academia?

Was referring to the author of the passage in screenshot, not to van Manen. van Manen's view on this matter is not shared by any present NT scholar I'm aware of. Even Richard Carrier acknowledges that Paul more likely than not existed and wrote some of the Epistles later to be incorporated in the NT.

See his reasoning here:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/7643

Excerpt:
Quote: First, they all cohere in style (idioms of vocabulary, connotation, grammar, punctuation, sentence length). The forged letters do not. They neither cohere with each other (except when produced as a unit, like the Seneca correspondence), nor with the style features of the authentic six. So one person did write those six (even if, as the letters openly state, they also reflected the views of a co-worker whom Paul sometimes names in each case).
Second, they are stitched together from pieces of other letters. Each full letter named in the New Testament actually contains pieces of several letters, whose full content and original destination are now lost (see OHJ, p. 511). Sometimes so badly connected up as to be nearly unintelligible (e.g. the transition between 1 Cor. 8 and 9: OHJ, pp. 582-83). One does not forge letters that way. Which makes this another good indicator that these are not forgeries. Rather, someone tried to semi-reverently keep an original collection, but just the parts they liked, and assembled them together into a new whole in the most logical way they could. Their meddling after that was small and nitpicking, as the manuscript evidence shows, or blatant and obviously un-Pauline, as some of the interpolations made before 150 A.D. show (see Pauline Interpolations).
Third, they all make arguments and interact persuasively in a context where the Jewish temple was still standing and its cult operating. And in a context where views of Jesus and the Church that appear in the Gospels have not yet come to exist (not even to denounce or counter or rebut, much less use or co-opt or transform). This is very unlikely unless the letters were written before the year 66 A.D. (when the Jewish War began, an event wholly unknown to the author), and before the Gospels were written (which could be as early as 70 or 75 A.D. for Mark).
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty? - by Grandizer - August 30, 2020 at 2:03 pm

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