RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
August 21, 2020 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2020 at 5:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I don't think that you're engaging in this conversation genuinely. It's okay for you to believe that there will be souls that die. You've already explained that you believe as much. There's no gotcha here.
I simply object to the death of souls for the same reason that I would object to the death of living bodies - when some moral agent who had the power to help, for -whatever reason- failed.
You can insist "but those souls objected" - fine, but that's a reason for failure - and that failure is what I object to, not some specific reason that any of you superstitious lot console yourselves with. We're looking at the same purported event or act - you don't like the way I describe it, and you don't end up with the same moral assessment - but it isn't on account of my getting the relevant facts of your beliefs wrong.
I'll wait until you can accept the possibility of some person objecting to your accurately understood beliefs, as you believe that you can object to other's accurately understood beliefs. At the end of the day, I fully expect you to disagree with me - you are a christian, after all. Which of us has the accurate moral understanding is not important to our convo here (and I assume that we both insist that ours is the accurate one), and not at all determined by us sharing our factual assessment (which, again, we do). If you can't get past the need for your opposition to be factually wrong when they make a moral objection, you'll never be able to address our concerns, and this is to the detriment of your own faith and it's command of rational discourse. You could, fully within your faith, and fully from your faith, suggest that I shouldn't do or affirm the legitimacy of anything which assaults my conscience. Gods built in canary, and being damned by our own judgements, and all.
You could have went that way. Oh well, christian degeneracy at work. Can you understand why, without falling into silly christian posturing, a person can get your faith right and object to being a member in the same way that you believe that your snippet gets other's faiths right, and objects? You're speaking to a person who holds to a moral system in which every relevant aspect of the contents of your faith is immoral. A person who could hear you tell what you believe your god is, and what your god does - and say..'yup, sounds fucking awful".
I simply object to the death of souls for the same reason that I would object to the death of living bodies - when some moral agent who had the power to help, for -whatever reason- failed.
You can insist "but those souls objected" - fine, but that's a reason for failure - and that failure is what I object to, not some specific reason that any of you superstitious lot console yourselves with. We're looking at the same purported event or act - you don't like the way I describe it, and you don't end up with the same moral assessment - but it isn't on account of my getting the relevant facts of your beliefs wrong.
I'll wait until you can accept the possibility of some person objecting to your accurately understood beliefs, as you believe that you can object to other's accurately understood beliefs. At the end of the day, I fully expect you to disagree with me - you are a christian, after all. Which of us has the accurate moral understanding is not important to our convo here (and I assume that we both insist that ours is the accurate one), and not at all determined by us sharing our factual assessment (which, again, we do). If you can't get past the need for your opposition to be factually wrong when they make a moral objection, you'll never be able to address our concerns, and this is to the detriment of your own faith and it's command of rational discourse. You could, fully within your faith, and fully from your faith, suggest that I shouldn't do or affirm the legitimacy of anything which assaults my conscience. Gods built in canary, and being damned by our own judgements, and all.
You could have went that way. Oh well, christian degeneracy at work. Can you understand why, without falling into silly christian posturing, a person can get your faith right and object to being a member in the same way that you believe that your snippet gets other's faiths right, and objects? You're speaking to a person who holds to a moral system in which every relevant aspect of the contents of your faith is immoral. A person who could hear you tell what you believe your god is, and what your god does - and say..'yup, sounds fucking awful".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
