Sinning, as Jesus and the church say, is good. Turn or burn Christians.

[Greatest I am]

We are universalists and do not discriminate against gays and women without a just cause the way Christians do.

When you say "we," are you referring only to your current group of gnostics? Or is this true of gnostics in general, all the time?

Gnostics are, in a sense, the black sheep within Christianity and other religions.

Like Jesus, we are more of god's sheep dog and are duty bound to try to have ideologies and theologies progress to seeking god the way all good traditions teach.

Finding God, as holy books say, is deadly, but his best rules and laws can be dithered out.

Gnostics, as the intelligentsia of old, was very good at that, using logos. That is why the inquisitions killed us to promote their vile mythos and supernatural mind killing con man garbage.  
 
We, in a sense, are the ones being discriminated against in all cases because we put ourselves there. We generate though and most are too mentally lazy to bother doing so. Hence our sheep dog role of nipping at peoples heels.

Few can do this, while many would like to.
 

One thing that seems safe to say about gnostics: there was a wide variety. Differences of opinion among gnostics were even wider than among the early Christians, at least at first. I don't know, maybe you guys have reached consensus by this time. 

We have.

We, as the intelligentsia, have chosen logos over mythos. We are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists. We have condemned the genocidal god to hell. 
 

Christians haven't yet reached an overall consensus regarding gay people. More and more Christians say they're fine. My niece's church says on its home page that they're happy to do gay weddings. 

In general, gnostics hold that matter is evil and spirit is good. In many cases this has led to skepticism concerning bodily pleasures. Asceticism, including a rejection of both gay and straight sex, was not unusual. 

That we hate matter is one of many lies the inquisitors put into history to justify their mass murders.

To a Gnostic, our minds are everything. It needs matter. So does the spark of god/life. 

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
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The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Can you point to any early gnostic texts (say, first or second century) that address homosexuality? Scholarly secondary sources would also be interesting.

It is implicit in the overall ideology. It is inferred and rather obvious.

What do religions sell? Love and forgiveness. For a high price, and most begin selling that by proposing a better way to salvation with a focus on the moral tenet of doing unto others in a reciprocal way.

If love is to rule and direct our thinking, first and foremost, then sexual matters must take second place.

Homophobia ignores love and places sex above it.

Homophobia is thus proven to be anathema to religions and morals.

It would deny souls love because of sex.

Homophobia divides when love is supposed to come first and unite. 

Gnostics have tied god's righteousness to equality for all people as god would create us all equal.

Homophobia and misogyny are not righteous traits. That is why most civilized countries will reflect that in their legislation. 

Regards
DL  

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Jews just say Eden was a success for both man and god, while Christians see both man and god as losers who cannot get things right.

Jews brand Eden Original Virtue, while Christians brand it Original Sin.

Christians usurped the Jewish god but scrapped the ideology.

I am no expert on Jewish theology, but I agree that "original sin" was considered a mixed blessing even by the writers.  It wasn't all bad.

In the garden, Adam and Eve were like children.  Taking the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil made them moral and intelligent agents.  The punishment of "the fall" was to prevent mankind from being rivals to the gods themselves (yes, plural).

Its a bit of a fun fairy tale, if so much bad didn't come out of people taking it literally.

You have a decent grasp on things.

I agree that faith and supernatural belief that comes from the literal reading of myths is evil.

In fact. I have this piece that is near ready to post as an O.P.

I will accept any advice.

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Religions and supernatural beliefs are the enemy of world peace, as shown by 5000 years of war.

Supernatural believing faith-based religious hierarchies have been lying so much to their people that the more vulnerable of their people actually believe the --- mythical, allegorical, imaginary icons that they are persuaded,--- against all logic and reason, --- to believe in as real. That is abuse to a mind.

A mind is a person’s most treasured possession and to allow liars and con men to effect and infect so many minds, --- should be made illegal, as well as a sin, --- but of course, --- the world is not ready for a moral religious lesson.
 
Logic, reason, logos, intelligent thinking, --- it seems, --- are no match against the vile con men who run the religions and the mythos they and the faith poison they use to damage precious minds.
 
We and our ancestors have paid a high price to the religious con men that have damaged so many minds. A huge price in minds, cash as well as; world peace.

Those con men should be censored.

Religions are a good thing. They have just forgotten that they were created to produce peace.
 
Not the God damned God produced 5,000 years of our war filled history.

While those same religions oppressed non-believers, women and gays. As the majority, the religious also impose poverty.

The supernatural belief fostered by the mainstream, --- immoral, homophobic, and misogynous religions, --- and their con men hierarchy, --- are not a friend to peace.

They should be outlawed as soon as possible.

This would allow what Jesus preached in terms of electing a human God.

Human Gods can make peace and I suggest we elect one, as in the Roman System, democracy; to bring peace to the world that we are God damned destroying for our children.

Their precious minds are in your hands.

Logos or mythos must be chosen by all.

Peace wants Logos, not mythos, faith, or an unproven supernatural concept of any kind.

Trust the method for peace that Jesus preached. Elect a God. A man. Jesus asked his people if they had forgotten that they were Gods.

Most had, but not the Gnostics who had taught the Roman Jesus.

Be a Gnostic and recognize the evil of religions, as well as the good parts.

I would prefer to focus on the good, but my love has created a great hate for the religious con men who harm so many.

That hate forces me to call them out, even as I recognize the need for community churches. Less so now as in the past.

Our world cannot afford to lose good minds to religious faith based supernatural thinking that is helping to destroy our world.

Peace and decent morality would like to prevail.

Be decent parents and people and tell your children that there is nothing to fear from the supernatural, because there is only good, in what you can imagine somehow; even if you do not see it in your imagination immediately. Think dreams.

Minds are too precious too allow frivolous impairment. Save yours by discarding faith without facts and the imaginary supernatural realm.

Please.

Regards
DL

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??

There are no evil or sinful sexual fantasies if it is consentually based.

I cannot speak for the other type.

The urge to mate would be sin, not sex of any particular kind.   The thing that compels, not the thing you do on account of it.  All things derived from that urge would be sinful things, all evil.  Consent, no consent, samesies.

As to your understanding, not surprising. We were more in competition for the supremacy of ideas that cooperating.

Which begs the q...who am I trying to fuck?  If the urge to mate is sin as you describe, and this is what engenders conflict in human beings, which is our barometer for evil....who's the lucky girl?

As a Gnostic Christian, I find it fairly easy to see and use analogues terms between the various ideologies and theologies. Sin, crime, evil, bad, --- while each has it's specific definition, when I balance things out, they are all on the same side.

Perhaps, and I hope, that that penchant is what made the older Gnostic sects more moral than Christians as it allowed us to see Yahweh for the prick he is.

Regards
DL

That's the general notion, yeah, that all of these things are related.  Sin is the thing that compels us to evil, bad is a descriptor for those things, and crime is a subset for which we have laws.  Seeing as how all of these concepts are immensely consequential in our lives, we should probably have an accurate understanding of them, and I don't think that fingering the urge to mate as sin is that description.  

In the wider view, sin as intrinsic to human beings, you couldn't be more moral™ on that count.  You have a different religion, but you still have the urge to mate which still drives you to competition.

Let's analogies.
We are evolved from a primate line. What in their troupes causes the most conflict and chaos? What disturbs the peace the most and causes the most evil?

I would say reproduction. 

It is also in most animal species.

We are no different. 

Don't mess with a naturalist.  

Regards
DL

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This is quite interesting.

Do y'all think that instincts, particularly those who we only have a partial control over, be considered sinning when those instincts (like the urge to mate) has a harmful outcome? I feel like I'm missing something about sin, that I'm not quite getting.

You control your instincts?

I doubt it. Not that you cannot control some outcome, we have some free will.

Tell us how you control your instinct to flinch and duck, as an example, when, let's say a bird flies by your head.

Pick some other if you do not like my suggestion.

Regards
DL

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Or an act of divine grace (per their theology).

Nevertheless, as Bel pointed out, Gnostics come in various shapes and sizes, and it's the same with "non-Gnostic" Christians.

As per their theology, Yahweh denies grace where he chooses and that is why so many Christians argue that we have no free will.

If the theology is right, we have no free will.

Grace is a garbage term as it has never shown itself to be real.

You hide behind mythos so as to hide from reality and logos.

I put a piece on the harm to minds that literalism and supernatural beliefs do. Please have a look.

Anytime you wish to compare good Gnostic morals to evil Christian ones, lets do so.

Regards
DL

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Can't tell a christian that their superstitions might actually pertain to something true and profound - nope, gotta be pixies.

I do not recognize that term.

Can you rephrase your though so that I might see your POV?

I think I agree but being French, I do not know all English terms.

Regards
DL

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Dritch

"so you have no right to judge genocide as evil."

I see.

You have a right to judge but I do not.

I see that the Golden Rule is not a part of your moral code, you pathetic piece of human genocidal god loving garbage.


Three Cheers for Genocide.

Regards
DL