(February 21, 2021 at 11:43 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:(February 21, 2021 at 10:53 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Indeed there is a theory by Leonard Susskind that says information is indestructible. Admittedly, it is way over my head so I am unable to evaluate it. Google it and see what you can make of it.
I found your comment interesting. I had to read a review paper on the philosophy of information a few years ago (and agree it is way over my head as well). But there was a paragraph in that paper that always stood out to me and which I always wanted to go back and review:
"Informational realism arises from Wiener’s conception of information, according to which information is neither matter nor energy, but a third property that constitutes the world. Moreover, Wiener says that information is the content that can be exchanged with the environment to adjust us to it. In this view, the universe, including human beings, is composed of information, matter, and energy" (Adams, 2016).
Viewing information as an entity unto itself is interesting, but observing the universe from the standpoint of information is fascinating. It brings a certain cohesion to everything from consciousness to genetics, over into spacetime. I'm sure Leonard Susskind's theory fits nicely into that framework. (Norbert Wiener was the originator of cybernetics.)
Reference: Adams, F., de Moraes, J.A. (2016) Is there a philosophy of information? Topoi 35, 161-171.
The information Susskind is talking about is Entropic information. It's the same information that Hawkins used for his famous Hawkins radiation thesis that describes black holes evaporating over time.
The idea of entropy goes all the way back to 19th century scientist, Ludwig Botzmann and is the basis of second law of thermodynamics, the law that manifests itself at ever level of our reality. The entropic information is basically various states of particles that make up the matter. As these states change to form new forms of matter (ie, energy changes from one form to another), entropy increases and you are ended up with different set of information. However, the total information of the system (say, universe) remains the same since the total matter (in case of our conversation at hand, the 5% of the universe) remains the same.
Think of this like scrabble pieces. At one point in time you can make up certain set of words using those pieces. But if you then mixes them up in the bag, that particular information (those words you made) are no longer available. However, the individual alphabets remains in constant numbers and can be used to construct other words. If the same pieces were used to make different words then you can only make certain words at any given time.
There is a key element here that has been missing from the conversation and that is time. Even if you take entropic information as the basis for subsequent ideas like holographic universe, this still is irrelevant to conversation of the "consciousness". The consciousness of one person exists in one specific time. Time, again, is not a fundamental property of nature so it too is an emergent phenomenon. My grandfather, and his grandfather existed in dimension of spacetime before me. As the matter they were made of got recycled into universe and, say, was used in making part of some other living beings, while part of them just stayed like mud, reconstitution of that same consciousness is not possible as those particle have changed states and have become part of some other living beings and hence consciousness of those living beings.
Even if you theoretically think of reconstruction of one type of consciousness (my grand father), you cannot possibly theoretically come up with a way of reconstruction of a different consciousness (me or some other guy) since some of the same particles were used to make up both consciousness in two separate living beings at two different spacetime coordinates but since same matter manifested itself in two different set of information in two different spacetime coordinates, it is no longer unique universally. In other words, my consciousness is not a unique thing universally speaking. It is only unique within the coordinates of spacetime where I exist. But the very basis of reconstitution of consciousness implies that it is universal and trumps spacetime (my grand father's consciousness should be reconstructed as should be mine equally at the same time). This creates a paradox that's impossible to overcome.
