(March 5, 2021 at 7:51 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I get that the angry atheists thing is evergreen - but it's probably more to do with your own apprehensions than the level of anger on the boards or in atheism at-large. Not that this would matter, even to you, since you don't believe in objective whatsits to condemn angry atheists by. OFC, people can have misgivings - and what I've noticed over the years with deconversion stories and general conversation is that no atheist believes that god owes them something or is angry at a god they don't believe in. They believe that there were people who owed them something, and people that they believed in abused that trust. That god is what you would call a human evil.
This. ∆∆∆
If ever I seem angry, it is not at any supposed God but those who deign to speak for him. If such a creator being truly exists as spoken of, they chose their representatives poorly, because these men and women used their authority and influence to manipulate me for years, to make me feel guilt and shame for choices that I was told I am free to make, and to stunt my psychological, intellectual, and emotional growth to make me easier to control and make it harder for me to conceive of life independent of their authority. (I might have been less resentful and bitter if raised in a regular Christian religion, because the LDS is a pretty repressive fundamentalist evangelical cult, but it's a negligible difference.)
(March 5, 2021 at 1:30 pm)Ryantology Wrote: This is not possible, no such explanation would satisfy my criteria for morality. My issue with the Christian God is that he is described with ultimate characteristics, perfection, able to know everything, able to do everything. Assuming this is true, it must logically follow that any suffering, great or small, is inflicted as the result of this god's intention. There would be no suffering if this god desired there to be no suffering.
It further must logically follow that this cannot be excused by the claim that this god has a plan, the execution of which requires human (or any, for that matter) suffering to take place. For, a god capable of absolutely anything could achieve whatever goals he wishes, in any way he wishes, and it also further follows that it cannot happen in any way but that which he wishes.
It further must follow that it is illogical for an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful god to resort to any kind of long term plan, for any reason. Plans exist specifically because it is not possible to do anything and everything all at once, with the metaphorical snap of a finger. To have to resort to a plan requires a god limited in his power and reach. To resort to a plan in spite of no such limits means that it can only be an unnecessary action undertaken deliberately.
This is brilliant and my thoughts mirror this path. The only thing is, I don't want to worship anyone. I used to put the caveat on it that if a God was whiny enough to demand obedience and reverence from me, it likely didn't deserve it. But I cannot see myself willingly handing my worship over as an unprompted gift either.
By the by, the NT isn't this idealistic elevated book either. It's just as primitive as the OT. It describes ritualistic cannibalism in order to recreate a blood magic sacrifice. It introduces the petty human ideal of a torturous afterlife for those who don't come under heel, based upon our need for retribution and punishing those we feel wronged by. It's not enough to live with God again; we gotta make those sinners pay.
