(October 29, 2021 at 12:59 pm)ronedee Wrote:(October 28, 2021 at 8:05 am)Helios Wrote: Ah yes another idiot who wants to blame gays for the catholic churches problems rather than you know pedophiles (because having sex with boys doesn't mean your gay and most pedophiles show no interest in adult men and show an interest in adult women)
Obviously most of you haven't watched the video. Which makes you look like idiots, frankly.
Stay in your first dimension atheist cocoons. That will be your final resting place anyway.
Quis ut Deus? St Michael The Archangel. I went to a Catholic school called St Michael's. Our school motto was Quis ut Deus. It was translated as "Who is like to god?" which is close enough.
I've been an ex Catholic for over 50 years. I have been an atheist for a bit over 30 years. My journey to atheism was long and often painful. Reaching the point where I was no longer able to believe in god was an inevitable conclusion, not a choice.
My devout catholic mother died in 2019 at age 92. She was lucid, had the last rites and was surrounded by her family. My mother was a kind and compassionate person who gave witness to her faith by the way she lived, helping many people in her lifetime. Her faith was of great comfort to her. Yet even she recognised the evil of child sexual abuse in the church . She also recognised the criminality of the systemic cover ups of those vile crimes. Non catholics find it hard to understand the church position of centuries; that canon law trumps civil law.
I'm glad that you are able to find comfort in your faith. I respect that and am not willing to criticise you for your beliefs. However, I insist being able to genuinely criticise the church without personal abuse or facile and ignorant generalisations being hurled around.
I ask that you do not criticise me or others here because we are unable to believe in god. Atheism is only a lack of belief in god(s), period. It is not club, nor a philosophy, nor a political ideology. There is no such thing as an atheist spokesperson nor atheist position in any subject other than a disbelief in god(s). The reason given for disbelief tends to bee a lack of empirical evidence.(neither is there any empirical evidence for the non existence of god)
I have strong opinions about the many sins of the church***. These opinions are based on evidence gained over years spent studying the history of Christianity as well as just paying attention over the last couple of decades.
If you are going to criticise me, or other atheist, I ask only that you base your criticisms on evidence and try to refrain from personal insults. That approach can be quite hurtful and is intellectually lazy.
*** Specifically on the thoroughly documented scandal of child abuse, I can only think of one book off hand, which isn't much I know.:
"The Case Of The Pope", by Geoffrey Roberston:
The Case of the Pope: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuses is a 2010 book by Geoffrey Robertson QC, detailing failings in the Vatican's handling of cases of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.[2][3][4][5][6]
Reception[edit]
The Economist described The Case of the Pope as "a fine book that outlines some of the legal arguments swirling around the Vatican, as scandals over clerical child abuse spread from America to Europe and other places. [Robertson] argues that the Vatican's claim to be a state has enabled it to dodge responsibility for penalising child abuse. [He] maintains that the Vatican's insistence on the primacy of canon law—under which child abuse is treated as a spiritual disorder rather than a crime with victims—has obstructed the discovery of truth and perverted the course of (secular) justice. At a minimum, many readers will gain a better understanding of the serious problems that can arise when two legal systems, one secular and the other religious, operate in parallel."[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Pope
ADDENDUM: I have never claimed that the sexual abuse of children is only or even mainly a Catholic problem. In recent years it has emerged that such abuse is common in different denominations, and other faiths. (Islam and Judaism) What I've been able to conclude is that sexual abuse can and may happen anywhere a male has power of children. Yes, women abuse too, but it's overwhelmingly males as far as I can tell.
