[quote='fr0d0' pid='17139' dateline='1242417283']
"I guess I also don't have those experiences to be jaded and/or mislead by either"
[quote]It seems you're quite jaded already
[/quote]
Well, I don't FEEL jaded...although I guess jaded people don't always sense their jadedness lol
[quote]Commitment 'because you have to' or 'because of some reason other than love' ISN'T love.[/quote] I agree. And I also think commitment is about attachment and not love. It's a product of love not the other way around. It's the love itself that matters.
[quote]Simple. Yeah sure there may be people committing out of fear.[/quote] If the love is enough, if you just love then that's enough! LOL (Duh?). You can commit and NOT love, you can commit AND love - so it's not the commitment that's the love. Why commit if it's just an addition that can be broken anyway? Doesn't it show MORE love if you can stay WITHOUT it? [quote]Personally this is exactly what I think of when you talk about not committing. [/quote]? Lol. If you're not committed then why and how would you fear loss? You haven't committed so you're open and free - and yet you can still care and love the one person you love. If you love them - you love them! [quote]You live in constant fear that your relationship could end at any moment.[/quote]Eh? This is if you're NOT committed? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever for me. If you're not 'comitted' to the relationship then why on earth would you fear lOSING it? You'd just enjoy and APPRECIATE having it. [quote]Any time a problem arises the partners have the very easy option of giving up and walking out.[/b] Why SHOULDN'T they be able to have that option? They're free, you don't own them and if they love you and want to stay then they'll stay. If they don't they'll go and that's up to THEM. No one 'belongs' to anyone else. [quote]It's immature love to think this is what love is. [/quote] Well what I've been responding to of yours hear...doesn't seem like love to me. You seem to completely misunderstand me because you seem to somehow think NOT committing=fearing loss rather than the other way around. If you're not committed to the relationship HOW and WHY could you fear LOSING it? And you also have said that if you don't commit then the other person could just walk out.......
Well....yes.....shouldn't they have the option? You don't own them. If they don't want you or love you why would you want them to stay anyway? Isn't it up to them on that matter? And vice-versa of course.
I really don't understand this viewpoint it seems really weird. NOT committing apparently you say=fearing a relationship you're NOT committed to. And if your partner can leave you if they WISH that option of freedom of theirs which would be a sign that they don't want to (and therefore shouldn't) stay anyway - is apparently a BAD thing??
EvF
[quote]I hate the idea that because of your prejudice towards religion you dismiss marriage. [/quote] Not at all.
1. I'm not prejudiced towards religion because I dismiss ANY bullshit without evidence and I only hate religion because of the problems it causes in the world...(which is with good reason therefore, NOT prejudice).
And 2. I don't dismiss marriage because of religion. I dismiss all the RELIGIOUS aspects of marriage because it's bullshit like the rest of religion. But I'm against secular marriage TOO for reasons previously stated in this thread.
[quote]Marriage is meaningless ritual.[/quote] If you believe this why do you HATE the idea that I dismiss marriage???[because or religion you say, but as I have said explained that's not true. I dismiss secular marriage too].
[quote]Commitment isn't marriage.[/quote] I'd say marriage is a FORM of commitment...or ritual that people display when (or after) they commit to each other. [quote]Marriage in church for non believers is superstition.
[/quote]
Well it's superficial I think...not NECESSARILY superstition. It depends on the 'ritual' and if any of it is actually believed or not I guess.
Anyway, I think generally superstition is just bullshit like religion (no evidence just like religion, etc) only more watered down and without a God attached to it (although some 'religions' arguably don't have a God...like some forms of Buddhism, etc, or perhaps Taoism (although sometimes they are thought of as much as philosophies as religions))
EvF
"I guess I also don't have those experiences to be jaded and/or mislead by either"
[quote]It seems you're quite jaded already
[/quote]Well, I don't FEEL jaded...although I guess jaded people don't always sense their jadedness lol
[quote]Commitment 'because you have to' or 'because of some reason other than love' ISN'T love.[/quote] I agree. And I also think commitment is about attachment and not love. It's a product of love not the other way around. It's the love itself that matters.
[quote]Simple. Yeah sure there may be people committing out of fear.[/quote] If the love is enough, if you just love then that's enough! LOL (Duh?). You can commit and NOT love, you can commit AND love - so it's not the commitment that's the love. Why commit if it's just an addition that can be broken anyway? Doesn't it show MORE love if you can stay WITHOUT it? [quote]Personally this is exactly what I think of when you talk about not committing. [/quote]? Lol. If you're not committed then why and how would you fear loss? You haven't committed so you're open and free - and yet you can still care and love the one person you love. If you love them - you love them! [quote]You live in constant fear that your relationship could end at any moment.[/quote]Eh? This is if you're NOT committed? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever for me. If you're not 'comitted' to the relationship then why on earth would you fear lOSING it? You'd just enjoy and APPRECIATE having it. [quote]Any time a problem arises the partners have the very easy option of giving up and walking out.[/b] Why SHOULDN'T they be able to have that option? They're free, you don't own them and if they love you and want to stay then they'll stay. If they don't they'll go and that's up to THEM. No one 'belongs' to anyone else. [quote]It's immature love to think this is what love is. [/quote] Well what I've been responding to of yours hear...doesn't seem like love to me. You seem to completely misunderstand me because you seem to somehow think NOT committing=fearing loss rather than the other way around. If you're not committed to the relationship HOW and WHY could you fear LOSING it? And you also have said that if you don't commit then the other person could just walk out.......
Well....yes.....shouldn't they have the option? You don't own them. If they don't want you or love you why would you want them to stay anyway? Isn't it up to them on that matter? And vice-versa of course.
I really don't understand this viewpoint it seems really weird. NOT committing apparently you say=fearing a relationship you're NOT committed to. And if your partner can leave you if they WISH that option of freedom of theirs which would be a sign that they don't want to (and therefore shouldn't) stay anyway - is apparently a BAD thing??
EvF
[quote]I hate the idea that because of your prejudice towards religion you dismiss marriage. [/quote] Not at all.
1. I'm not prejudiced towards religion because I dismiss ANY bullshit without evidence and I only hate religion because of the problems it causes in the world...(which is with good reason therefore, NOT prejudice).
And 2. I don't dismiss marriage because of religion. I dismiss all the RELIGIOUS aspects of marriage because it's bullshit like the rest of religion. But I'm against secular marriage TOO for reasons previously stated in this thread.
[quote]Marriage is meaningless ritual.[/quote] If you believe this why do you HATE the idea that I dismiss marriage???[because or religion you say, but as I have said explained that's not true. I dismiss secular marriage too].
[quote]Commitment isn't marriage.[/quote] I'd say marriage is a FORM of commitment...or ritual that people display when (or after) they commit to each other. [quote]Marriage in church for non believers is superstition.
[/quote]
Well it's superficial I think...not NECESSARILY superstition. It depends on the 'ritual' and if any of it is actually believed or not I guess.
Anyway, I think generally superstition is just bullshit like religion (no evidence just like religion, etc) only more watered down and without a God attached to it
(although some 'religions' arguably don't have a God...like some forms of Buddhism, etc, or perhaps Taoism (although sometimes they are thought of as much as philosophies as religions))EvF
