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The Israel question.
#21
RE: The Israel question.
(December 27, 2011 at 10:32 am)5thHorseman Wrote: Why does America care so much about Israel? Is it strategic positioning? Sympathy/empathy? Friend in the Middle East?
Here's one basic point: The Republican party is controlled by right-wing Christians, many of whom believe that, since Israel figures so heavily in Revelation, the second coming of Christ can only occur if Israel is a nation.

Quote:Why do people like Newt Gingrich hate Palestine? Can they not see that Israel insane right wing Zionists are themselves a major problem?

I used to be a supporter of Israel but have come to dislike its politics and aparteid style treatment of Palestinians, who although they don't do themselves any favours by voting in terrorists like Hamas, do not deserve to be treated like prisoners in their own land.

Why the love for a country that is oppresive to millions of Palestinians?
I honestly think that both sides are pretty much irredeemable.
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

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#22
RE: The Israel question.
Massive threat?
Bah. Who really fears Israel? Their "threat" is nothing more than political. They are as dangerous as the ones that actually allow for their existence on that place allow them to be. This is the reason why they are easily ignoring any UN resolutions, condemnations and etc. like they were nothing but a piece of paper(which they are), when it comes with dealing with the others around them in the region, no matter who they are.
I certainly do not think that nukes are a weapon that can be used for any measure now, not even by rogue nations like Iran, unless they, of course, are willing to expect something in return.
Not that Israel can actually use these nukes either, they're only there for political show-off. Besides, if someone would be using them, it would be the US, as they are certainly the first and the last to use them, in my opinion.
Israel is just a tiny jew nation that stands out amongst the sea of orientals as a "bastion of the west", even though they are inhabited by another oriental folk, the jews, they certainly are more open to cooperation with the west than the arabs, who had their share of bad memories when thinking of the days when they were bff with Britain and France.
The only reason that Israel survives is because they are assisted by the west, and the fact that they are doing their best to keep the nations around them impoverished, or in a state of anarchy and war. Nearly all of this was accomplished in the last century.

But as in terms of military strength, I don't think that Israel faced off any serious threats before, and let's look at the threats it's facing now:
Qassam rockets. Over the course of eight years, they've fired more than 8000 rockets into Israel. Well, the death toll for the Israelis from these attacks are about 28 people at most. And let's see the death toll of the recent bombings of the Gaza strip by Israel, not to mention the blockade.
About a thousand. Now let's see the 2006 lebanon war.
Again, about a thousand of lebanese civillians are dead. But less than 500 hezbollah combatants were killed, with 121 losses on the Israeli side.
1:5 ratio, with the number of forces being 10000 men for Israel, and 3000 for hezbollah, with hezbollah not having access to the gadgets that the Israelis have. And I wonder how it'll turn out if just only Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and of course, the Palestinian militias and organisations would join to fight against a common foe.
Israel would face disaster.

But then again, not Egypt nor any of the other countries want to wage war against Israel.


Quote:Here's one basic point: The Republican party is controlled by right-wing Christians, many of whom believe that, since Israel figures so heavily in Revelation, the second coming of Christ can only occur if Israel is a nation.
That's too simplistic.
I'm sure that there are people in America who believe in that crap, but America has been suppoting Israel for too long a time to actually tie this to the rapture crap.
Besides, Jewish theology contradicts this argument, since the Jews are actually supposed to have a nation with the coming of the Messiah, which is, from the Jewish point of view, not Jesus.
Quote:I honestly think that both sides are pretty much irredeemable.
They truly are. Irredeemable.
Maybe it's time for a new, intenational mandate for Palestine/Israel.
I recommend Poland.
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#23
RE: The Israel question.
(December 27, 2011 at 6:07 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:
(December 27, 2011 at 10:32 am)5thHorseman Wrote: Why does America care so much about Israel? Is it strategic positioning? Sympathy/empathy? Friend in the Middle East?
Here's one basic point: The Republican party is controlled by right-wing Christians, many of whom believe that, since Israel figures so heavily in Revelation, the second coming of Christ can only occur if Israel is a nation.

Haha.... tin foil hat much? Wow. I'm sure there's a few people who actually believe that out there, but that it is some rampant conspiracy w/ the GOP is pretty questionable.

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#24
RE: The Israel question.
(December 27, 2011 at 6:36 pm)helmespc Wrote: Haha.... tin foil hat much? Wow. I'm sure there's a few people who actually believe that out there, but that it is some rampant conspiracy w/ the GOP is pretty questionable.
Here are two quotes by Reagan:
For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ.
-- Ronald Reagan, to James Mills regarding events in Libya (1971), quoted from "A Brief History of the Apocalypse"

We may be the generation that sees Armageddon.
-- Ronald Reagan, in an interview with televangelist Jim Bakker (1980), quoted from "A Brief History of the Apocalypse"

If these are just a couple nutjobs, they must be high-ranking ones.

But don't just take my word for it Take his
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

[Image: 161109-WlllQ6UaSpqY.png]

Trump 2017: We're all nihilists now.
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#25
RE: The Israel question.
"But then again, not Egypt nor any of the other countries want to wage war against Israel."

Gee, I wonder why.......Argue



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#26
RE: The Israel question.
(December 27, 2011 at 7:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "But then again, not Egypt nor any of the other countries want to wage war against Israel."

Gee, I wonder why.......Argue

Because of western interference.
If the west would withdraw it's support from Israel completely, Israel would be pounded to dust.
Quote:Here are two quotes by Reagan:
For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ.
-- Ronald Reagan, to James Mills regarding events in Libya (1971), quoted from "A Brief History of the Apocalypse"

We may be the generation that sees Armageddon.
-- Ronald Reagan, in an interview with televangelist Jim Bakker (1980), quoted from "A Brief History of the Apocalypse"

If these are just a couple nutjobs, they must be high-ranking ones.

But don't just take my word for it Take his
Still, the external policies of a country are not based upon religious mumbo jumbo. And remove America from the long list of allies that Israel has. Israel still has Europe behind it's back.
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#27
RE: The Israel question.
Of course, couldn't possibly be because it's a losing proposition, regardless of western influence, which most of the countries involved all enjoy the fruits of (militarily speaking).



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#28
RE: The Israel question.
Americans love to have a "lost ark" they can raid, even if only metaphorically. Israel is our faux-real antique.
Trying to update my sig ...
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#29
RE: The Israel question.
Quote:But then again, not Egypt nor any of the other countries want to wage war against Israel.


I recall Anwar el-Sadat saying the following while discussing Egypt's peace treaty with Israel.

"Other states want to fight Israel to the last Egyptian soldier."
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#30
RE: The Israel question.
(December 27, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:But then again, not Egypt nor any of the other countries want to wage war against Israel.


I recall Anwar el-Sadat saying the following while discussing Egypt's peace treaty with Israel.

"Other states want to fight Israel to the last Egyptian soldier."

And still nothing since his assasination.
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