The new atheists and The war on History

[Tiberius]

I'm so glad we have a load of competent historians among our membership. I know nothing of history, but I can tell this thread is going to be very interesting

[VyckRo]

Giordano Bruno, a martyr of atheism? Never heard that before.

Hypatia of Alexandria was murdered by christians for refusing to be a christian. They made an example of her. And that "papyrus" you mentioned was a library full of knowledge, history, and literature that was was destroyed by stupid fucking christians like you. Some of it might have proven parts of your shitty fucking bible to be historically relevant, maybe. Now we'll never know, and always be forced to doubt, and there isn't anyone to blame but the christians themselves.

This quote is too good not to be addressed
In fact, until the Islamic conquest of Alexandria We have mentions of pagans in Alexandria, and yes, a library.
The library could not be destroyed,because it was located in another part of the city. According to Plutarch, the library was destroyed during Julius Caesar, other contemporary historians, said that it did not burn completely.
So what was destroyed in Alexandria?
A pagan temple, where they practiced animal ritual sacrifice, guts-reading and astrology.

These are just myths, promoted by man as Andrew Dickson White and John William Draper, to demonize religion.

According to the ancient sources Hypatia was involved in some political gamess, seeking to maintain a conflict between civil authorities in Alexandria, and the christian camp. Hypatia apparently use all her influence, to stop a reconciliation between the Roman Prefect and the Christian Patriarch.
After her death reconciliation happened, and all the street fighting, (If you saw the movie) were over.

This theory (speculated in the movie) was advanced by Mangasar Mugurditch Mangasarian (1859-1943)
"When Christianity gained the upper hand in Alexandria, it set out to destroy two of the principal monuments of its powerful rival, Paganism -- the library and the temple of Serapis"

If you want the truth see Maria Dzielska's Hypatia of Alexandria (Harvard University: 1995).

The original document on Hypatia, where the reason for the crime is clearly stated


"There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner, which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not unfrequently appeared in public in presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in coming to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more. Yet even she fell a victim to the political jealousy which at that time prevailed. For as she had frequent interviews with Orestes, it was calumniously reported among the Christian populace, that it was she who prevented Orestes from being reconciled to the bishop. Some of them therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Cæsareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles. [...]This happened in the month of March during Lent, in the fourth year of Cyril's episcopate, under the tenth consulate of Honorius, and the sixth of Theodosius. "


To get a more clearer image of the stage of conflict, between Christians and Pagans from that period.

"Mark, bishop of Arethusa, an old man and venerable for his gray hairs and life, was put to a very cruel death by the inhabitants of that city, who had long entertained inimical feelings against him, because, during the reign of Constantine, he had more spiritedly than persuasively elevated the pagans to Christianity, and had demolished a most sacred and magnificent temple. On the accession of Julian he saw that the people were excited against the bishop; an edict was issued commanding the bishop either to defray the expenses of its re-erection, or to rebuild the temple. Reflecting that the one was impossible and the other unlawful for a Christian and still less for a priest, he at first fled from the city. On hearing, however, that many were suffering on his account, that some were dragged before the tribunals and others tortured, he returned, and offered to suffer whatever the multitude might choose to inflict upon him. The entire people, instead of admiring him the more as having manifested a deed befitting a philosopher, conceived that he was actuated by contempt towards them, and rushed upon him, dragged him through the streets, pressing and plucking and beating whatever member each one happened upon. People of each sex and of all ages joined with alacrity and fury in this atrocious proceeding. His ears were severed by fine ropes; the boys who frequented the schools made game of him by tossing him aloft and rolling him over and over, sending him forward, catching him up, and unsparingly piercing him with their styles. When his whole body was covered with wounds, and he nevertheless was still breathing, they anointed him with honey and a certain mixture, and placing him in a fish-basket made of woven rushes, raised him up on an eminence. It is said that while he was in this position, and the wasps and bees lit upon him and consumed his flesh, he told the inhabitants of Arethusa that he was raised up above them, and could look down upon them below him, and that this reminded him of the difference that would exist between them in the life to come. It is also related that the prefect who, although a pagan, was of such noble conduct that his memory is still honored in that country, admired the self-control of Mark, and boldly uttered reproaches against the emperor for allowing himself to be vanquished by an old man, who was exposed to innumerable tortures; and he added that such proceedings reflected ridicule on the emperor, while the names of the persecuted were at the same time rendered illustrious."

or

They stripped the holy virgins, (nuns) who had never been looked upon by the multitude, of their garments, and exposed them in a state of nudity as a public spectacle and objects of insult. After numerous other inflictions they at last shaved them, ripped them open, and concealed in their viscera the food usually given to pigs; and since the swine could not distinguish, but were impelled by the need of their customary food, they also tore in pieces the human flesh.


http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/202/2020403.htm
http://www.truechristianity.info/en/sain...usa_en.php

audiatur et altera part
see also the Catholic position
Did Saint Cyril Kill Hypatia?
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/cyril_hypatia.htm

Hypatia of Alexandria was murdered by christians for refusing to be a christian.

I am afraid it was not so

I hope that I have not destroyed your the faith

[LastPoet]

Oh dear

[Minimalist]

I'm so glad we have a load of competent historians among our membership. I know nothing of history, but I can tell this thread is going to be very interesting

This clown isn't interested in history. He just wants his fairy tales vindicated.

[Shell B]

VyckRo, yes, we cannot say for certain whether the Christians destroyed the library of Alexandria. If I remember correctly, we do know they at least tried. Don't forget about the tomb of Alexander the Great. That was very likely a victim of Christianity as well. Christians or natural disaster.

Please, for fuck's sake, stop bringing up the goddamn movie. No one gives a fuck about a Hollywood representation. You are making accusations about history, not Hollywood.

I wonder, why didn't you address the questions about your qualifications in the other thread? A little insecure about your fake education?

[Minimalist]

You are making accusations about history, not Hollywood.

He probably thinks Cecil B DeMille's brain fart of the 10 commandments is pure history though, Shel.

[VyckRo]

Again, so what? You are trying to argue that atheists are trying to change history. Instead of wandering off the course of conversation you laid, why don't you stick to your original point, as you have yet to sufficiently argue it. Then, we can talk about who speaks for who and why killing an old lady is somehow better than killing a young lady. Does that work for you?

The problem is not there is a difference between killing an old lady and killing a young lady.
But that historical facts are distorted in such a way, that the idea of an eternal conflict between science and religion is created.
Historical facts are changed to such an extent as to validate the conflict thesis. And yes we have the greatest atheists of the moment, classifying Christianity as being a Bronze age religion, promoting the myth of the 1000 years "dark Age" and all this to support their a priori idea.

---

VyckRo, yes, we cannot say for certain whether the Christians destroyed the library of Alexandria.

Obviously we can, I did not happen.

[The Grand Nudger]

Christians or natural disaster.

Redundant.

[VyckRo]

Christians or natural disaster.

- Christians or natural disaster -
Perhaps it was just a lucky coincidence that all civilizations had healers, but only in Christianity, modern medicine has emerged, that all civilizations had astrology but only in Christianity modern astronomy emerged, that all civilizations had alchemy but only in Christianity modern chemistry emerged.


It must be a disaster

I wonder, why didn't you address the questions about your qualifications in the other thread? A little insecure about your fake education?

What " other thread"?

I graduated from two universities
1. History
2. Political Science

[Rev. Rye]

I graduated from two universities
1. History
2. Political Science

Yes, but from where did you matriculate? History and Political Science aren't colleges; they are majors.