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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 28, 2012 at 12:58 am
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2012 at 1:01 am by Godscreated.)
(January 27, 2012 at 2:33 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: God does not make people sick necessarily, what actually makes you believe that God makes everyone sick. If you were to contract AIDS does that mean God forced you to have sex with an infected person. How do you know that God has not healed someone of AIDS?
However, voluntary contact with an infected individual is not the only way to contract the virus. As well as non-consensual contact, including rape, there have also been other innocent people who have ended up infected after blood transfusions or handling infected bodily fluids and tissues. What about children born to HIV infected mothers? According to Avert.org, some 15-30% of such babies will become infected during pregnancy and delivery, while another 5-20% will become infected during breastfeeding. Innocents all - yet if you cannot entertain the idea of 'God' infecting them deliberately for some arcane or even sinister purpose, then 'God' either fails to prevent the infection, fails to care, fails to know and/or understand the problem, or fails to exist.
Agree, to many innocent people die of AIDS because of what you mentioned. I lost a good friend because of a transfusion, this is a Christian family and not once did they blame God. Those like my friend fell into a bad circumstance not of their own making and children who contract AIDS through birth or breast feeding come into a horrible situation. These however are still of someones irresponsibility, God did not cause the situation. Why blame God for a drug addict or sexually active person who donates blood, what about a parent wanting to have a child who does not get a simple blood test to make sure they can eliminate the possibility of infecting a child, seems like such a simple act of love. Why do atheist want to place blame on God, you do not believe, so you have no idea of who He is.
(January 27, 2012 at 1:44 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: The fact remains that you have no evidence G-C...mind you as an atheist it would be more likely that science would have a better record of at least remission as it works on a cure then your deity would
Can you answer a simple question, when has science cured one person of AIDS.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 28, 2012 at 2:17 am
You're right, I do not believe in god, capitalised or not. It's precisely for that reason that I don't blame it for causing bad things to happen or failing to prevent them. However, you and your fellows do believe in it and so yours is the burden of explaining why, in your worldview, your god apparently sits on its arse and watches these things happen. All I am doing is holding you to the rules of your own story.
I do sympathise with your losing your friend in such a terrible way. All death is tragic and untimely death is the unkindest cut of all. Having said that, I cannot believe you actually think that life and the human condition is as black and white as you expressed.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 28, 2012 at 2:38 am
As usual G-C you think I am some know nothing female and you have not really read my post but seen what you wanted to see. Idiot 
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 28, 2012 at 7:21 am
(January 27, 2012 at 1:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: (January 27, 2012 at 2:20 am)genkaus Wrote: (January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: God does not make people sick necessarily, what actually makes you believe that God makes everyone sick.
The same thing that makes you believe that he heals. Given the exclusion of human will, everything else that happens is the will of god.
(January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: If you were to contract AIDS does that mean God forced you to have sex with an infected person.
Having sex with an HIV positive person is not causally sufficient to contract the virus. You can have sex with such a person and still fail to become positive. You are simply exposing yourself to the risk.
Now, if there is a god and everything that happens is his will, then the causal gap between exposure and actual occurrence is the result of god's intention. Yes, you exposed yourself to the disease, but god is the one who caused it. You put yourself in the line of fire, but god is the one who pulled the trigger.
(January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: How do you know that God has not healed someone of AIDS?
Duh, because there is no such thing as god.
Those responses are ridiculous, can't you do better, first you blame God then you say there's no God, please make up your mind.
Look carefully. The first part was answered by tenuously accepting the premise that there is a god. If there was one, he
d be responsible for causing aids and curing it. Since there is no such thing as a god, he's responsible for neither.
Your hypocrisy lies in how you assume that there is a god but he's only responsible for the cure and not the cause.
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2012 at 1:16 am by Godscreated.)
(January 28, 2012 at 7:21 am)genkaus Wrote: (January 27, 2012 at 1:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: (January 27, 2012 at 2:20 am)genkaus Wrote: (January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: God does not make people sick necessarily, what actually makes you believe that God makes everyone sick.
The same thing that makes you believe that he heals. Given the exclusion of human will, everything else that happens is the will of god.
(January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: If you were to contract AIDS does that mean God forced you to have sex with an infected person.
Having sex with an HIV positive person is not causally sufficient to contract the virus. You can have sex with such a person and still fail to become positive. You are simply exposing yourself to the risk.
Now, if there is a god and everything that happens is his will, then the causal gap between exposure and actual occurrence is the result of god's intention. Yes, you exposed yourself to the disease, but god is the one who caused it. You put yourself in the line of fire, but god is the one who pulled the trigger.
(January 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: How do you know that God has not healed someone of AIDS?
Duh, because there is no such thing as god.
Those responses are ridiculous, can't you do better, first you blame God then you say there's no God, please make up your mind.
Look carefully. The first part was answered by tenuously accepting the premise that there is a god. If there was one, he
d be responsible for causing aids and curing it. Since there is no such thing as a god, he's responsible for neither.
Your hypocrisy lies in how you assume that there is a god but he's only responsible for the cure and not the cause.
Explain to me why God would be responsible for AIDS, your analogy in bold above would have to place blame on doctors for causing AIDS, since you do not believe there's a God. No matter what you want to believe or not believe, man's sin is responsible for AIDS. Tell me if there is no God then who or what is responsible for AIDS and it's dramatic spread. I was in my twenties when AIDS became known, I've seen the progress of this.
(January 28, 2012 at 2:17 am)Stimbo Wrote: You're right, I do not believe in god, capitalised or not. It's precisely for that reason that I don't blame it for causing bad things to happen or failing to prevent them. However, you and your fellows do believe in it and so yours is the burden of explaining why, in your worldview, your god apparently sits on its arse and watches these things happen. All I am doing is holding you to the rules of your own story.
I do sympathise with your losing your friend in such a terrible way. All death is tragic and untimely death is the unkindest cut of all. Having said that, I cannot believe you actually think that life and the human condition is as black and white as you expressed.
Life is not black and white, if it were, then it could be as predictable as a math problem and we both know that's not possible and that is just one of many reasons I'm glad I have a God who loves me.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 1:28 am
(January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: Life is not black and white, if it were, then it could be as predictable as a math problem and we both know that's not possible and that is just one of many reasons I'm glad I have a God who loves me.
It loves you so much it doesn't care if you expose yourself to horrible diseases, nor does it lift a finger to save you afterwards. In fact, it is so powerless that it can only manifest itself through purely natural forces; forces which, in the main, have been thoroughly understood scientifically and not even a single particle of anything god has either ever been detected or is even necessary to their function. Perhaps you ought to try divesting yourself of the cotton wool you call 'God' in which you've wrapped yourself and take a look at the world for what it actually is.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 1:51 am
(January 30, 2012 at 1:28 am)Stimbo Wrote: (January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: Life is not black and white, if it were, then it could be as predictable as a math problem and we both know that's not possible and that is just one of many reasons I'm glad I have a God who loves me.
It loves you so much it doesn't care if you expose yourself to horrible diseases, nor does it lift a finger to save you afterwards. In fact, it is so powerless that it can only manifest itself through purely natural forces; forces which, in the main, have been thoroughly understood scientifically and not even a single particle of anything god has either ever been detected or is even necessary to their function. Perhaps you ought to try divesting yourself of the cotton wool you call 'God' in which you've wrapped yourself and take a look at the world for what it actually is.
I see the world as it is and the world is not a pretty place, yes there are wonderful things in this world but, as for the human race things are not rosy.
God does care if I expose myself to such a disease, why do you think that God said sex should be only between a man and his wife, if everyone would obey this one commandment just think of all the problems in the world that would have never happened and I might still have my friend. God is outside of the natural that's why He is supernatural.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 2:01 am
Quote:God said sex should be only between a man and his wife, if everyone would obey this one commandment just think of all the problems in the world that would have never happened and I might still have my friend.
Yes dear ...that is why little children die of AIDS and heterosexual males and females die of AIDS.
Clearly you are still grieving
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 2:11 am
Sexual contact is not the only way of contracting this terrible disease. I have already explained this to you. The morality or otherwise of sex between consenting adults of any gender - or indeed any number of participants - is only peripherally relevant to the subject of disease in general and HIV in particular; especially since condoms have a proven track record of protecting against STDs.
As for this god being outside of nature: fine, so it can be safely ignored as it exists outside our reality. On the other hand, if it is supposed to have any effect whatsoever on our reality, then that effect must be detectable and measurable by definition. This puts it squarely in the realm of science, which examines events that exist in our reality and dissects them to discover the mechanism behind them. However, you want to eat your cake and have it too by staking claim to both sides of the argument. That is not a rational position to take.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy
January 30, 2012 at 3:43 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2012 at 3:45 am by genkaus.)
(January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: Explain to me why God would be responsible for AIDS, your analogy in bold above would have to place blame on doctors for causing AIDS, since you do not believe there's a God.
no. Because I do not believe doctors to be omnipotent and I do not believe that everything that happens independently of human will is the will of a doctor. You on the other hand, believe that.
(January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: No matter what you want to believe or not believe, man's sin is responsible for AIDS. Tell me if there is no God then who or what is responsible for AIDS and it's dramatic spread. I was in my twenties when AIDS became known, I've seen the progress of this.
The proximate cause: HIV.
Ultimate Cause: Unknown - since there is no specific action that can be said to necessarily lead to result
But if god existed, then he'd be the ultimate cause.
(January 30, 2012 at 1:51 am)Godschild Wrote: (January 30, 2012 at 1:28 am)Stimbo Wrote: (January 30, 2012 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: Life is not black and white, if it were, then it could be as predictable as a math problem and we both know that's not possible and that is just one of many reasons I'm glad I have a God who loves me.
It loves you so much it doesn't care if you expose yourself to horrible diseases, nor does it lift a finger to save you afterwards. In fact, it is so powerless that it can only manifest itself through purely natural forces; forces which, in the main, have been thoroughly understood scientifically and not even a single particle of anything god has either ever been detected or is even necessary to their function. Perhaps you ought to try divesting yourself of the cotton wool you call 'God' in which you've wrapped yourself and take a look at the world for what it actually is.
I see the world as it is and the world is not a pretty place, yes there are wonderful things in this world but, as for the human race things are not rosy.
God does care if I expose myself to such a disease, why do you think that God said sex should be only between a man and his wife, if everyone would obey this one commandment just think of all the problems in the world that would have never happened and I might still have my friend. God is outside of the natural that's why He is supernatural.
Are you under the delusion that heterosexual sex does not lead to contracting AIDS?
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