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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:05 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
(February 11, 2012 at 12:24 pm)Tiberius Wrote: It's perfectly honest, and that's the problem with the system. Did you watch the whole interview? None of the delegates lied about who they were going to represent; they just showed up and became delegates.
The word you might be looking for is "fair", not "honest". No, it's not fair, but then the democratic system in your country (and mine) is not fair. You win by gaming the system, and this is just an example of that.
Well, no more do I want to here than Ron Paul is any better or more moral than those other politicians. He is just as much as a skin flint game player as the others.
The day Ron Paul gets elected will be the day America has gone WAY to far to the right for me..and I may just very well leave it.
(February 11, 2012 at 12:41 pm)RW_9 Wrote: If Ron Paul were to actually get the nomination, he would end up getting utterly slaughtered in the election. So it really doesn't matter.
Not unless he finds a way to make Obama delegates into Ron Paul delegates... Im sure he would gladly turn my vote for someone else into a vote for one of his delegates. this is no libertarian. He is a typical Republican. He doesnt give a shit about civil liberties (because otherwise he would be opposed to doing such a thing). He just wants power.
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm
(February 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Well, we agree on one point, disagree on another. The system is flawed. The flaws in this system do not remove my grounds for complaining about their actions.
(Case in point, Libertarian.....in your estimation our current system is flawed, but those parts which you feel are flawed are legitimate, so what are your grounds for complaining?)
I think you misunderstand me. I can't complain if someone is using the system in a way that it allows; that would be fruitless. I can complain about the system itself, and use an example to show how it is flawed. By definition the parts that I feel are flawed are legitimate...if they weren't, they wouldn't be flaws would they?
My grounds for complaining would be that current (legitimate) parts of the system are either flawed, or open to loopholes.
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm
And my complaint would be that certain individuals have exploited those loopholes which they know damn well violate the purpose of the system they are engaging in. Is that not valid grounds for complaint about a person operating within a system by means of gaming it's flaws?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:24 pm
What is Ron Paul, anyway? Paleoconservative? He endorsed the Constitution Party candidate last presidential election cycle, I think that's a better fit for him. They just didn't exist yet when he was running for prez under the LP ticket.
I've been very disappointed in the Constitution Party's inability to siphon off the conspiracy theorists and anti-immigrant types from the LP.
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:29 pm
(February 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: And my complaint would be that certain individuals have exploited those loopholes which they know damn well violate the purpose of the system they are engaging in. Is that not valid grounds for complaint about a person operating within a system by means of gaming it's flaws?
It doesn't violate the purpose of the system though. The purpose of the caucus is to vote in delegates to go to convention; that is still happening.
A caucus isn't a system where delegates are assigned to the people who get the most votes; it is a system where voters let the party know who them support, and then delegates are chosen afterwards in an entirely separate process.
What I'm trying to say here is that complaining about someone who has technically nothing wrong isn't going to get you anywhere, since there isn't anything that can actually be done about it. What you can do (and should) is complain about the flaws of the system, and point out that candidates (such as Paul) have used them for their own advantage, and you think that is unfair.
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2012 at 1:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Technically, I didn't do anything wrong", has ever been the retreat of shady assholes everywhere hasn't it T? I expect more, that's all.
(I appreciate the consistency though, you don't get alot of that when you talk politics)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm
(February 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (I appreciate the consistency though, you don't get alot of that when you talk politics)
What's that supposed to mean?
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:43 pm
(February 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: And my complaint would be that certain individuals have exploited those loopholes which they know damn well violate the purpose of the system they are engaging in. Is that not valid grounds for complaint about a person operating within a system by means of gaming it's flaws?
EXACTLY! What is the purpose of even voting if the entire PARTY decides to just ignore even the basic concept of the voting system? Ron Paul , who tries very hard to convince people that he is nothing like these other politicians, then OPENLY BRAGS about how he is completely circumventing the enitre purpose of a democracy, yet claims he is a libertarian.
It doesnt matter...Republicans dont like the democratic process. Democrats dont like the democratic process...
...and now Libertarians are joining in with hating the democratic process as well.
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:46 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2012 at 1:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I asked you what your opinion would be if the candidate in question was one which you strongly opposed, if you would have grounds for criticism. You said no. I don't really get into politics much beyond this forum because alot of times a question like that is taken as an invitation to bombard some favored enemy in defense of "their guy" rather than directly answering the question. You did no such thing. Consistency. It's refreshing, that's all that means.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ron Paul might have the most delegates?
February 11, 2012 at 1:46 pm
This is a democratic process. Anyone can stay behind and elect the delegates in, but they don't. What people at caucuses (and you guys apparently) don't understand is that the individual voting at the start of a caucus doesn't mean anything; you can think of it as simply a census to see where people's loyalties lie.
The real voting is done at the end, and most people decide to go home before that happens.
(February 11, 2012 at 1:46 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I asked you what your opinion would be if the candidate in question was one which you strongly opposed, if you would have room for criticism. You said no. I don't really get into politics much beyond this forum because alot of times a question like that is taken as an invitation to bombard some favored enemy in defense of "their guy" rather than directly answering the question. You did no such thing. Consistency. It's refreshing, that's all that means.
OK. I was confused because you said you didn't get consistency a lot when "you" (i.e. me) were talking politics, so I took it to mean that you thought my political opinions are regularly inconsistent...which would surprise me 
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