Views beyond Atheism

[Edwardo Piet]

Faith being belief without evidence. I thought that would make Faith itself illogical...never mind illogical faith. Isn't belief without evidence (faith) illogical? (Because that includes non-emprical evidence. And this 'reasoning' of yours too.)

EvF

[fr0d0]

(Aren't we calling NE evidence reason now?) Well I think faith has to be based on reason. That's the only reason I adhere to the stuff... because it's rational. I don't think I do anything I rationally don't agree with. Morals, for example, make sense. I don't do stuff out of fear, but because I want to. Fear is for the religious. The prodigal son's pious prat of a brother was religious and we're told that was bad.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well if your reasoning counts as an indication that God actually exists (whether NE or not) then that would in other words, be some form of - evidence.

So if it's some form of evidence. Then it's not faith. If it was faith there would be no evidence - so also no NE evidence or 'reasoning' so it would be irrational. Faith is irrational.

EvF

[leo-rcc]

To respond to the original question.

I don't care if one prays or not, believes in gods or not, believes that the earth is 6000 to 10000 years old, thinks a giant milk churner on the bottom of the ocean created life, none of it matters to me. I find the concept interesting, but more from an anthropological standpoint than from a religious one.

Where I draw the line is when religious people try to force their beliefs down the throat of children and young adults by trying to teach their views as science in science classes. Not just the Christians, but all religions that try to do so. When I noticed that there are creationists and even young earth creationists in my country, that was when I decided to get more vocal on the topic.

Now some might argue that religion is bad for various other reasons and that might be true, but if the religious people want to celebrate that a zombie rose from the dead, it doesn't bother me at all. That is where I depart from the likes of Prof. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens though I do agree with a lot they have to say.

[Giff]

Are religious teachings dangerous?

My personal views on the subject are that religion is dangerous, the teachings are dangerous and the world would be better off without religion.

I think also it is dangerous in some way. In some cases is it dangerous cause it can justify evil acts. But also in general is it dangerous to knowledge, logic and rational thinking.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think the problem is that with how 'popular' religion is and how it's like a virus all over the world (it's bloody everywhere) it's very hard to have every single religion person NOT shove their views down people's throats. I mean, it's bound to happen, and in fact - the bible kind of encourages converting, etc, doesn't it? For example?

I mean with a lot of religions (especially the Abrahamic ones) I think if they are practised fundamentally then that is pretty much bound to happen.

I think religion itself has a negative impact on the world, not the people so much because the people vary. Some people force it down others throats, some don't. But if there's no religion to 'force down' then it couldn't happen.

Some religions are more like that for a start - and some are more liberal.

I think the thing is that when you actually believe in that bullshit it doesn't have a good effect on you. Either it's harmless bullshit or harmful bullshit. And if it was harmful but NOT bullshit then that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing because if its harmful but not bullshit then that would imply it would be worth it/harmful for a good reason I think. I.E - if the truth hurts then it's still the truth.

If some medical procedures hurt then that doesn't mean they're not a good thing, for example. If they're bullshit however (i.e. they don't work) then the procedure can only be a bad thing. Totally unnecessarily harmful at worst, a waste of time and/or mild annoyance at best.

I think the fact it's bullshit and a distortion of the truth, makes it harmful (religion that is). I don't think it would be very easy to have so many people forcing religion down people's throats if there was no religion! And also, I think the fact it's all over the place ('popular' lol) and is total bullshit; and some of the stuff religion says - I think that makes it pretty difficult for you to NOT get people forcing it down your throats, as I said.

Besides - believing so passionately with unquestioning faith itself motivates people to 'force it down' I think. They are convinced they are right and their 'faith' will not be reasoned with because 'faith' trumps all. Some are peaceful about it and keep it to themselves - some don't.

In an ideal world it would be nice yes, if EVERY religious people could keep it to themselves (although I personally think it would be nicer if everyone appreciated the truth and didn't have to believe such stupid bullshit) - but I think that's just that, in an ideal world. It's idealistic - I don't think practically it's going to happen.

While religion is around being driven by unquestioning 'faith' that many religious people are Oh so passionate about - I think there will always be religious nutjobs and/or religious people shoving (or trying to shove) their religion down people's throats.

So not only do I think it would simply be better if everyone didn't believe in bullshit - I think that the only real way to get rid of all the religious evil in the world and the religious nutjobs - is if religion itself came to an end (or pretty much).

I'd only wish this by entirely non-violent means though. Unless there was a religious war and everyone had to defend themselves and their religion or something like that lol.

Not that I see religion ever leaving - despite the fact I find it interesting, I'd rather it wasn't here.

Besides, you can totally find religion an interesting subject without believing it. I mean look at Greek, Norse, Egyptian mythology etc- many people find that interesting (as do I)....not many people believe in it lol

EvF

[g-mark]

Well, apparently religion is unstoppable, and porbably always will be. You guys better get used to it. Our world is a sespool of germs and arrogant people. The earth would do better without us all. LOL.

[Giff]

Will knowledge be avaible and education become better do I not doubt that atheism in the future will be a majority.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well, apparently religion is unstoppable, and porbably always will be. You guys better get used to it. Our world is a sespool of germs and arrogant people. The earth would do better without us all. LOL.

Reminds me of a quote : "Death solves all problems — no man, no problem" - Joseph Stalin.

But then....on the other hand...: Stalin was a total and utter complete bastard, to say the least.

EvF

[Giff]

Stalin also said something like this, I don't know his exact words: One persons death is a tragedy, but a milions death is just statistics.