Views beyond Atheism

[Sponge]

Just kinda testing the water here really, what is everyone's view when it comes to active Atheism?

Should religious people be left to their own devices and ignored? Do you think religion is detrimental to society, should we be actively attempting to spread our lack of belief, or does that make us just as pushy as religious preachers? Are religious teachings dangerous?

My personal views on the subject are that religion is dangerous, the teachings are dangerous and the world would be better off without religion. The bad most certainly outweighs the good, and for this reason I'm becoming more and more inclined to doing all I can to encourage people to think for themselves rather than having it done for them.

I ask this because I'm wondering whether it's worth having a board dedicated to it, a discussion of things (no matter how big or small) we can all do to help fight organised religion and spread atheism. (and no, I don't mean in the angry PETA vandal sense)

[Edwardo Piet]

I totally encourage the spread of atheism and the death of religion. Providing it is done through non-violent means.

Despite the fact I find religion interesting. I despise it. I hate religion.

I don't hate 'the religious' or 'religious people' because they do differ a lot like everyone else, despite the fact that their religion can effect them of course (because religion is bullshit and a plague of bullshit that can lead to all sorts of immorality, not just ignorance. Because ignorance can lead to immorality. Faith is a virus and it can be a deadly weapon).

I don't hate the religious. But I DO hate religion. And the world would be better off without it.

Riddance to religion. Fuck faith. That's what I say.

EvF

[WWLD]

I agree with both of you. I don't hate religious people, I hate religion. My parents make me go to church with them a lot (yes, despite the fact that I'm an atheist, they make me go with them because they are Catholic), and anyway, when I'm at church, I honestly wish there was something I could do to help those people think for themselves. Especially the children. Seeing a child praying sucks. I mean, give them a chance to be a free thinker, you know?

Some people though, it is impossible to get them to believe anything outside their religion because they are so wrapped up and so dependent and trusting in their religion.

Of course, the world would be better with out religion. I would love to see a world FULL of free thinkers

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah. It's particularly horrible with children. I find it sickening for them to be 'brought up' to believe in all that shit. They should be taught to think for themselves.

And if they have to be 'brought up' religious, I think they should be taught as many religions as possible (and also they should meet some atheists too). So they understand there are so many different points of views and perspectives that there's doesn't seem so special any more. How is there's any more right than all the other religions? Etc. I think comparative religion is important.

I think being brought up as if one PARTICULAR religion is right, or to not even know ABOUT the other religions - is particularly bad. Like closed off from the world y'know?

EvF

[WWLD]

I think being brought up as if one PARTICULAR religion is right, or to not even know ABOUT the other religions - is particularly bad. Like closed off from the world y'know?

EvF

Yes. I think that's what makes them so dependent and trusting in their religion later on in life. They've been taught to not believe anything else. And closed off from everything else, like you said

[fr0d0]

Religion is bad*. I've no problem with anyone slating religion. In fact I'd happily join you. A cause of destruction is always bad though IMO.

I've been an atheist, twice. I've hated Christians with a vengeance. As peaceful as I am, I imagined getting physical with a knife sometimes. It isn't good. Like Kyu says, education is the way. By all means correct what you need to but don't dismiss without good reason. Christians tolerate all other beliefs. What does it look like with you saying you won't tolerate them?

To me it smacks of fundamentalism at it's worst. Even with rational and reasoned backing, you're acting out what your cause detests.




*Like the story of the Prodigal Son. The Son that stays at home is the Religious one. He's so pious and proud that he keeps the rules yet he's as bad as the son who left home to have sex with as many women as he could spending all his inheritance on it.

The third way is when the wayward son recognises his real need and asks for his dad's forgiveness. This is faith as opposed the 'religion'. The 'good' brother was religious.

[Sponge]

Religion is bad*. I've no problem with anyone slating religion. In fact I'd happily join you. A cause of destruction is always bad though IMO.

I've been an atheist, twice. I've hated Christians with a vengeance. As peaceful as I am, I imagined getting physical with a knife sometimes. It isn't good. Like Kyu says, education is the way. By all means correct what you need to but don't dismiss without good reason. Christians tolerate all other beliefs. What does it look like with you saying you won't tolerate them?

To me it smacks of fundamentalism at it's worst. Even with rational and reasoned backing, you're acting out what your cause detests.

I disagree with you.

Your main points seem to be the following:

1. Christians tolerate other beliefs, so why shouldn't Atheists?
2. Spreading Atheism is akin to spreading fundamentalism.

My response to #1 is that Christians do not tolerate other beliefs, although they pretend to. If their religion states that unless you believe in their particular religion you are going to be punished eternally, that is not tolerance.

It's like having a gun to someones head, making them give you money and saying "well, you can CHOOSE to give me money, but you can also CHOOSE to die. I am tolerant!".

Just because Christians aren't tolerant, doesn't mean we shouldn't be. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying we shouldn't be tolerant of supersticious beliefs because they are harmful to mankind.

My response to #2 is that we are not spreading a belief. The only thing we are spreading is "think for yourself". You can't force free thought on someone, or it wouldn't be free thought. We aren't forcing any rules on anyone, we're abolishing ridiculous thoughts that lead to nothing but suffering.

The difference between us and religion is that we're spreading doubt rather than certainty.

[Edwardo Piet]

Christians tolerate all other beliefs.

Evidence please. If you are saying ALL Christians then that can't be so unless you are applying the NTS fallacy.

Arguably Hitler was a Christian - and I wouldn't call HIM exactly tolerant!

And I think I heard that the Yorkshire Ripper apparently claimed to hear Jesus telling him to kill women. If he really believed this - he believed in Christ and thought he was following him - so therefore he's a Christian.

You certainly can't claim by any means that ALL Christians tolerate all other beliefs. That would be NTS.

I'm not sure you could even say MOST or 'quite a lot of' Christians tolerate ALL other beliefs?? (although I don't know on that one - I mean there's a lot of intolerant fundamentalists out there for example, and you can't simply say thay they aren't 'true christians' for that's NTS).

EvF

[Sponge]

To be honest, I wouldn't say that any "Christians" tolerate other beliefs. They say they do, but their religion tells them otherwise. Perhaps the person tolerates beliefs, but in that case they are not following their religion correctly so I wouldn't call them Christians.

[fr0d0]

I knew I was on dodgy ground with that one It's late. What can I say? LOL

Islam has 'states' and seems to endorse control by religion. There is lack of religious freedom in Islamic and Hindu countries that I know of. America, that vast bloated Christian has freedom of religion, and set itself up with state and church separate.

Of course I'd say that power hungry people corrupted Christianity to their own ends. That was the middle ages though. Not so much of that nowadays, apart from those damn crazy rat catchers.

"I'm saying we shouldn't be tolerant of supersticious beliefs because they are harmful to mankind." ..yup, can't disagree with that. Hate superstition (it's anti faith dontchaknow )

"The difference between us and religion is that we're spreading doubt rather than certainty. " ..gimme sum a THAT brother!