Suggestions for atheist framework

[Mister Agenda]

I'm glad to see AndrewT isn't a one-post wonder...AND capable of taking on board criticism, which isn't easy for anyone.

[Faith No More]

I'm sure it's been said, but I want to touch on the topic of each atheist being responsible for finding meaning in their life. They have to examine their life and what they like to figure out what will truly bring meaning, which is another reason that there can be no unified atheism philosophy.

After going through severe depression for fifteen years and then finally managing it while also raising a son, I have happiness in my life, and that has become my meaning. I want to be happy as long as my happiness doesn't infringe on someone else's happiness.

So to the OP, it really is up to your friend to do some 'soul' searching and to identify what would give his life meaning.

[mralstoner]

It seems you spend more time trying to convince each other of that God does not exist than working through issues of meaning with each other.

Unfortunately this is true of the atheist/humanist community in general. Most atheists do little except badmouth religion. And if an atheist should graduate to humanism he finds only a vague, individualistic and global creed that offers little guidance for living.

Regarding philosophy, the only source of values for atheists boils down to our desires/emotions/feelings. Historically, the philosophers of desire were folks like David Hume, Bertrand Russell, Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, and Adam Smith. (But I'm no expert, so don't quote me). But those old guys tend to be so longwinded that you'll want to start with modern-day equivalents.

Again, I'm no expert, but here's a few candidates:

Philosopher Alain de Botton ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oe6HUgrRlQ

Professor of Psychology Jonathan Haidt ...
(skip to 4:40 for his take on morality)
testign 123

Philosopher Richard Carrier: Is happiness the Goal of Morality?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctfh3O7ofl0

Psychologist Valerie Tarico ...
(skip to 1:40 for her 10 commandments)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsvVwnjL68s#t=101s
http://www.valerietarico.com/
http://awaypoint.wordpress.com/

Alas, humanist philosophy still has a long way to go to offer a compelling alternative to religion i.e. a strong communities with a clear value system. Hopefully this will come soon.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I have one friend in particular that i am trying to find a "healthy" atheist communities or phylosopher for to help him find his own meaning with out needing to use or convert to Christianity. Who are the more renowned atheist philosophers who have made moves toward a framework that helps a person struggling to find meaning to life?

I don't understand this - why does a person need another person to tell them what the meaning of their own life is? Sounds like this particular atheist already has one foot through the church door.

I want to make a very superficial observation about this community. It seems you spend more time trying to convince each other of that God does not exist than working through issues of meaning with each other.

Your observation is superficial, and wrong. Atheists don't try and convince one another of the non existence of god, we already declare that as our position. There are no issues to work though regarding meaning - that's for theists

Life has no discernable meaning other than replication for the sake of replication. "Meaning" then boils down to a personal wishlist, and is therefore different for everybody. Thus - nothing to discuss.

If you don't believe in God then fine, ignore us and the insecure idiots that call themselves Christians and work with each other to demonstrate the relevance of your philosophy.

Atheists have a non belief in your god, that's all there is to it. It doesn't matter if you feel it is relevant or not, it just is what it is. As for philosophy, I'm not a fan - too many dickheads who don't know the difference between shite and clay, pretending that they do.

[KichigaiNeko]

Go Plant a Garden! For eternal happiness!

[Whateverist]

It is surprising just how much happiness making a garden can give you. (Not sure about "eternal" but so far so good, I'm not dead yet.)

Kidding aside, mralstoner, I watched the first of the videos and the 10 'aspirations' in the last one. I liked the first one better and I think he makes some good points. The main one I agree with is that there is no need to be rude toward theists. They're not going away any time soon. We will be living along side them for a very long time, and they with us whether they like it or not. It would behoove us all to strive less to win every possible concession and to try instead to promote the idea of win-win. You can enjoy your religion or mind set without feeling like you need everyone to adopt it. How in the world can we get Christians and Muslims to stop trying to make secular laws coincide with the bible or koran? I'm not sure it can be done but it needs to be done. If that means I have to stop telling theists that their beliefs are ridiculous, I can do that. People riding on dinosaurs, 6000 year old earth .. not in our public schools. But if people like my bible fearing cousin insist on home schooling their kids to keep them from learning science .. it's a bitter pill but I can swallow it. I agree that we need to think beyond being right about God and think more strategically about public policy objectives. Winning the hearts and minds is the game we're all playing now but one no one will ever win. Also we should think more about the value religion has added to people's lives apart from the factual incorrectness of their beliefs. Being a stone cold individual with no common values with any greater community may be enough, but maybe it imposes an unnecessarily austere and ascetic outlook. I accept that over the communal bliss of traditional religion of course, but maybe we should think more about what is possible and what is best.

[Faith No More]

The main one I agree with is that there is no need to be rude toward theists.

While I generally agree with this sentiment, there is no part of me that feels the need to be polite to the ones that revel in others going to hell or feel that their beliefs make them superior. Not all beliefs are equal, and I think saying that we should treat them all equally does a disservice to those who don't use their beliefs to condemn and hate.

[The Grand Nudger]

What "issues of meaning" do you think atheists would have a hard time with? Who here needs convincing? Fucking trolls everywhere today.

[mediamogul]

Nietszche said that atheism could be like a second childhood. Morality no longer bears with it eternal damnation. One is freer to think honestly and to make mistakes. My personal philosophy must take into account my atheism, in that God can no longer ascribe meaning to my life (even if it was an admittedly flimsy one when I did believe). It was mentioned before but our human reason excercised freely is the best tool that one posseses. When we reject the idea that meaning comes from an external source we realize that we are bound (whether we know it or not) to create meaning for ourselves. It is a daunting task but with a little bravery one can even learn to relish the opportunity. I finally feel as though the ideas that I have are my own, that I have arrived at utilizing my own intellect. That is a great feeling once you get past the initial despair of your belief system falling apart.

[The Grand Nudger]

On the other hand, when we fail at what we thought our lifes purpose to be we cannot blame god or his plan for it. Sounds so rough..lol. The most "useful" parts of religious thinking are the excuses. Somehow I manage without them.