Christian Lies versus Biblical Truth

[Abracadabra]

Just about all Christian theologians, clergy, evangelists, and organized Christian religions hold out that a person must acknowledge that Jesus is "The Christ", that he is "Lord and Savior" and that he is the "Only begotten Son of the God of Abraham".

They also basically demand that for a person to be 'saved' they must ask Jesus for forgiveness, and there is 'no other way' to God but through these two things:

1. You must acknowledge and confess that Jesus is Lord.
2. You must repent your sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness in order to be "saved".

They get this crazy idea from various verses contained within the Biblical cannon. The most popular verses used are where John proclaims that a belief that Jesus is the Son of God is mandatory.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And they also often point the verse where Jesus himself supposedly proclaims that people can only get to God through him.

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So the Christians hold that there is simply no way to get to God but through the recognition of Jesus as being the divine son of God and only by requesting his forgiveness will anyone be accepted by Jesus.

However, these fables do not support this view.

When Jesus is on the cross at Calvary these fables clearly have Jesus stating the following:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Here, Jesus is asking that people who are clearly mocking him, and not recognizing his divinity, and certainly not asking him for forgiveness be forgiven for the know not what they do.

This totally flies in the face of John's demand that anyone who merely does not recognize the divinity of Jesus are automatically condemned.

Jesus himself is clearly renouncing John's demands at this point and clearly asking the Father to forgive these people who are ruthless mocking him, blatantly denying his divinity, and nowhere near prepared to ask him to forgive them for anything.

These people are in complete violation of everything that the Christians demand a person must do in order to receive the grace of Jesus. Yet, in spite of what the Christians demand, Jesus forgives these people on the grounds that they know not what they do.

~~~~~

So the Christians are demanding that Jesus will not forgive people who do not believe in him and/or refuse to ask him to forgive their sins.

Yet, these very fables have Jesus clearly violating what the Christians demand that he must be like.

These are just Christian lies that cannot be supported by this cannon of fables.

If Jesus himself is willing to forgive people "in-person" who are actively mocking him, beating him to a pulp, and nailing him to a pole, then clearly he's not going to require that people believe in him 2000 years later based on nothing more than highly contradicting hearsay rumors.

The "Christians" who demand that Jesus is like that are extreme hypocrites no less so that the Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites.

They are attempting to use Jesus as a weapon of hatred to renounce anyone who refuses to support their egotistical demands of what Jesus must be like. When in fact, the cannon of fables itself cannot even be used to support that idea.

Christian hatred toward non-believers held out in the name of Jesus is the greatest Christian lie ever created by mankind. Even these fables do not support such utter lies. Whether the fables themselves be true or not is totally irrelevant. Christians are grossly misrepresenting Jesus even based on what these fables have to say.

According to these fables, 'All judgment has been handed over to Jesus':

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

And according to Jesus, people should be forgiven if they merely know not what they do:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Therefore the claims of the Christians that it's mandatory (or even important) that anyone recognized Jesus as being divine, or ask him for forgiveness are totally unsupportable claims.

Apparently you can spit in Jesus' face, mock him, strip him of his clothes, beat him to a pulp, nail him to a pole, and he'll still forgive you!

According to these scriptures that's how Jesus will judge people. And according to these scriptures all judgment has been turned over to Jesus.

So the Christians are liars. They lie about their very own Jesus. And apparently John lied about Jesus too even within these very fables.

Based on these fables Jesus does not require that anyone believe that he was divine, or that they seek or ask him for forgiveness. All they need to do is not be fully aware that what they are doing is wrong, and that's more than sufficient for Jesus to forgive them.

Jesus will clearly forgive everyone of everything save for perhaps the most blatant hardened criminals who might actually 'know' what they are doing.

But your average Joe on the street will clearly be automatically forgive by Jesus, even if he's an atheist who openly mocks Jesus, for the Bible tells us so. Jesus will indeed forgive such people quite easily. It's right there in the Bible. You can call Jesus names and nail him to a pole, and he'll still forgive you.

So the Christians are liars if they try to claim otherwise.

Why do so many Christians insist on lying about Jesus?

[Forsaken]

Let's also not forget that Jesus was his own father, so crying out to himself to forgive people mocking him is kinda stupid. He could have forgiven them there and them without calling out to his father...who was him, after all.

And since Jesus was his father himself, people can follow either of their teachings, even the evil's of the old testament consented by Yahweh (such as chopping of your wife's hand when she intervenes in a fight) and still be saved.

Make's sense!

[Minimalist]

Ah, yeah....

[bob]

You made two critical errors in your uneducated rant.

1. God did not pass the judgement over to Jesus until after he ascended into heaven after being raised from the dead.

2. You assume that Jesus was talking about the people crucifying him. (this is a common misinterpretation from people who are ignorant of scripture).

Jesus was asking God to forgive the disciples, who all except John fled in fear of being killed themselves for being his followers.

eg. Peter denying he knew Jesus 3 times
Even though they were cowardly at the time, they were still believers.

Jesus was not talking about anyone who was around the cross, he was talking about the ones who weren't.

Nice try though.

[Minimalist]

Wow.


Your asshole must be bleeding after pulling that pile of shit out of it.

[Voltair]

You made two critical errors in your uneducated rant.

1. God did not pass the judgement over to Jesus until after he ascended into heaven after being raised from the dead.

2. You assume that Jesus was talking about the people crucifying him. (this is a common misinterpretation from people who are ignorant of scripture).

Jesus was asking God to forgive the disciples, who all except John fled in fear of being killed themselves for being his followers.

eg. Peter denying he knew Jesus 3 times
Even though they were cowardly at the time, they were still believers.

Jesus was not talking about anyone who was around the cross, he was talking about the ones who weren't.

Nice try though.

I think you are going to be hard pressed to prove that Jesus was talking to his disciples that forsook him. So he waited on the cross until they were all gone hours after he forsook him to say that. The disciples did forsake him but I am pretty sure most people don't question that when he says forgive them for they know not what they do it is referring to their crucifying/mocking of him. I haven't seen any proof that he could possibly be talking about the disciples... I think most people see that as Jesus speaking to the crowd too you are probably in the minority there even among Christians.

Please don't assume that we haven't studied scripture. Some people here know their Bibles pretty well believe it or not. Some may even be able to read Greek and Hebrew, don't assume we are not familiar with it. In fact there are former Christians, and yes ones that weren't "in name" only or whatnot, not to mention other people who have studied scripture just to investigate the ideas/problems more. That whole "you all don't know the Bible" line is pure unadulterated horseshit.

Jesus had the power to forgive sins BEFORE he ascended into heaven this is shown on multiple occasions. Do you mean he didn't pass judgment in the sense of being able to condemn but he could only forgive before dying?

[Godscreated]

---

Just about all Christian theologians, clergy, evangelists, and organized Christian religions hold out that a person must acknowledge that Jesus is "The Christ", that he is "Lord and Savior" and that he is the "Only begotten Son of the God of Abraham".

They also basically demand that for a person to be 'saved' they must ask Jesus for forgiveness, and there is 'no other way' to God but through these two things:

1. You must acknowledge and confess that Jesus is Lord.
2. You must repent your sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness in order to be "saved".

They get this crazy idea from various verses contained within the Biblical cannon. The most popular verses used are where John proclaims that a belief that Jesus is the Son of God is mandatory.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And they also often point the verse where Jesus himself supposedly proclaims that people can only get to God through him.

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So the Christians hold that there is simply no way to get to God but through the recognition of Jesus as being the divine son of God and only by requesting his forgiveness will anyone be accepted by Jesus.

However, these fables do not support this view.

When Jesus is on the cross at Calvary these fables clearly have Jesus stating the following:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Here, Jesus is asking that people who are clearly mocking him, and not recognizing his divinity, and certainly not asking him for forgiveness be forgiven for the know not what they do.

This totally flies in the face of John's demand that anyone who merely does not recognize the divinity of Jesus are automatically condemned.

Jesus himself is clearly renouncing John's demands at this point and clearly asking the Father to forgive these people who are ruthless mocking him, blatantly denying his divinity, and nowhere near prepared to ask him to forgive them for anything.

These people are in complete violation of everything that the Christians demand a person must do in order to receive the grace of Jesus. Yet, in spite of what the Christians demand, Jesus forgives these people on the grounds that they know not what they do.

~~~~~

So the Christians are demanding that Jesus will not forgive people who do not believe in him and/or refuse to ask him to forgive their sins.

Yet, these very fables have Jesus clearly violating what the Christians demand that he must be like.

These are just Christian lies that cannot be supported by this cannon of fables.

If Jesus himself is willing to forgive people "in-person" who are actively mocking him, beating him to a pulp, and nailing him to a pole, then clearly he's not going to require that people believe in him 2000 years later based on nothing more than highly contradicting hearsay rumors.

The "Christians" who demand that Jesus is like that are extreme hypocrites no less so that the Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites.

They are attempting to use Jesus as a weapon of hatred to renounce anyone who refuses to support their egotistical demands of what Jesus must be like. When in fact, the cannon of fables itself cannot even be used to support that idea.

Christian hatred toward non-believers held out in the name of Jesus is the greatest Christian lie ever created by mankind. Even these fables do not support such utter lies. Whether the fables themselves be true or not is totally irrelevant. Christians are grossly misrepresenting Jesus even based on what these fables have to say.

According to these fables, 'All judgment has been handed over to Jesus':

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

And according to Jesus, people should be forgiven if they merely know not what they do:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Therefore the claims of the Christians that it's mandatory (or even important) that anyone recognized Jesus as being divine, or ask him for forgiveness are totally unsupportable claims.

Apparently you can spit in Jesus' face, mock him, strip him of his clothes, beat him to a pulp, nail him to a pole, and he'll still forgive you!

According to these scriptures that's how Jesus will judge people. And according to these scriptures all judgment has been turned over to Jesus.

So the Christians are liars. They lie about their very own Jesus. And apparently John lied about Jesus too even within these very fables.

Based on these fables Jesus does not require that anyone believe that he was divine, or that they seek or ask him for forgiveness. All they need to do is not be fully aware that what they are doing is wrong, and that's more than sufficient for Jesus to forgive them.

Jesus will clearly forgive everyone of everything save for perhaps the most blatant hardened criminals who might actually 'know' what they are doing.

But your average Joe on the street will clearly be automatically forgive by Jesus, even if he's an atheist who openly mocks Jesus, for the Bible tells us so. Jesus will indeed forgive such people quite easily. It's right there in the Bible. You can call Jesus names and nail him to a pole, and he'll still forgive you.

So the Christians are liars if they try to claim otherwise.

Why do so many Christians insist on lying about Jesus?

---

You need to get back on your meds before you completely lose it. You hang an entire argument on one verse that you have no understanding of, why would one verse that you completely distort cancel out the many, showing only through belief in Christ and forgiveness of sin can one be saved. Let me guess you want an insurance policy, just in case you're wrong, doesn't work that way. Only walking in the Way will get you there.

[tackattack]

Lots of postulations could be made as to whom the "them" was in reference to, and many have been made. All we can really surmise is that despite themselves, Jesus wants some forgiven. When looking at the rest of what Jesus and the disciples taught it's fairly obvious that God's grace and not the Pharisees condemning use of the Torah is what brings salvation. Any gift requires it's acceptance Abbra. and for an atheist and antiChristian proliferator you sure love talking about Jesus and the Bible (just an observation no offence). That being said I do agree with your that Jesus is willing to accept a ton of crap and still forgives each of us.

[Zen Badger]

Biblical truth????

[Jaysyn]

Your argument seems just as valid as any other religious argument I've ever heard.

Nitpick: It's canon not cannon.