Abstaining from Vaccination should NOT be a right

[Melanbee]

Oh this is such a hot topic for me and close to home. I elected this year to not vaccinate myself nor my children against influenza. However, I am vaccinated on almost everything out there. I work in an environment where it's not always possible to avoid germs. Actually, it's highly unlikely that no matter what precautions I would take I would be exposed to all sorts of germs. I work in the health care industry and therefore am exposed to all sorts of things at a higher exposure level than the average Joe. So I vaccinate against most things as I previously stated. I will not vaccinate against Influenza. That vaccination is based on LAST years virus. There are thousands of strains of influenza out there. I believe our elderly and our at risk population should be vaccinated. But how can you mandate something in one country that might not be a problem in another country? So when you say that the government should mandate it...which government are you referring to?
I don't believe the government has a right to step in and tell who they think should be vaccinated at this point. However, if there is an outbreak of something then perhaps I would change my mind. If you are pro vaccinations, then you will get your vaccine and be safe from those that do not get vaccinated. So what difference does it make to you?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Absolutely, but can we at least make them wear badges of some sort, so we can identify potential carriers in private business spaces (like the local Applebee's, for example)?

Maybe a big red R for Rubella?

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Or maybe they can privately "register" with the host/ess, so that the hostess can discreetly inform potential patrons that a possible carrier is in their midst? Just trying to make sure no one is being wronged here.

OR perhaps a nice yellow star? That symbol isn't being used.

Three cheers for Godwin's Law

[The Grand Nudger]

Let's say that through my refusal to wash my hands (while fucking my cow), despite all of the information you may provide me with, I become the Typhoid Mary of the 21st century. Are we going to be looking at civil or criminal charges?

You have to wash your hands and wear gloves in a restaurant. You would be violating codes if you did not. If you did, there is no way you would become Typhoid Mary. If you did not, you could be sued for not following safety precautions that are in place for such things.

On a side note, this hypothetical cow might be offended that we are talking about her like some diseased whore.

There was "no way" for the flu to cross the barrier from cattle to human beings..until there was. Why are these gloves and the washing of hands any different? I could wash my hands and wear gloves all day long and that wouldn't even dent my ability to become the next Typhoid Mary. Pathogens can be harder to nail to the wall than jello. Is vaccination not a safety precaution that is in place for such things.

I keep her way too high to care Shell. Side effect of the antibiotics, precautions and all.

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If you are pro vaccinations, then you will get your vaccine and be safe from those that do not get vaccinated. So what difference does it make to you?

I only those nasty little things we vaccinate against would sit still..this would be true, and then it wouldn't make any difference to me at all.

[Melanbee]

Let's say that through my refusal to wash my hands (while fucking my cow), despite all of the information you may provide me with, I become the Typhoid Mary of the 21st century. Are we going to be looking at civil or criminal charges?

You have to wash your hands and wear gloves in a restaurant. You would be violating codes if you did not. If you did, there is no way you would become Typhoid Mary. If you did not, you could be sued for not following safety precautions that are in place for such things.

On a side note, this hypothetical cow might be offended that we are talking about her like some diseased whore.

There was "no way" for the flu to cross the barrier from cattle to human beings..until there was. Why are these gloves and the washing of hands any different? I could wash my hands and wear gloves all day long and that wouldn't even dent my ability to become the next Typhoid Mary. Pathogens can be harder to nail to the wall than jello. Is vaccination not a safety precaution that is in place for such things.

I keep her way too high to care Shell. Side effect of the antibiotics, precautions and all.

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If you are pro vaccinations, then you will get your vaccine and be safe from those that do not get vaccinated. So what difference does it make to you?

I only those nasty little things we vaccinate against would sit still..this would be true, and then it wouldn't make any difference to me at all.

Sit still how?I am perfectly aware of how diseases/viruses and bacteria's are transmitted. If you're saying people should be vaccinated to prevent transmission of the disease, then by default if you're vaccinated you prevented transmission. Correct? So why does it matter to you if someone who is not vaccinated exposes themselves to a disease? I am just curious as to what your rationale is.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

So what difference does it make to you?

Pragmatically: I have flu shots (and am vaccinated against everything else available) as I'm over 60. Plus, idiots using public medical resources when it can easily be avoided annoy the crap out of me. Don't want to be vaccinated? Fine,you will be refused treatment if you get the disease.

Flu vaccination is another matter entirely;it protects only against a specific strain. I can understand a young healthy person not bothering. BUT, the flu CAN still kill you.

[5thHorseman]

Godwins law, it's so fucking true.


Melanbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I think in the UK we only vaccinate old people for influenza, but i'm not completely sure. I thought the flu was only realy a problem for old people or people who live in backwater countries........oh right, maybe you should've got the jabs ;D *chuckles to himself*

[Melanbee]

So what difference does it make to you?

Pragmatically: I have flu shots (and am vaccinated against everything else available) as I'm over 60. Plus, idiots using public medical resources when it can easily be avoided annoy the crap out of me. Don't want to be vaccinated? Fine,you will be refused treatment if you get the disease.

Flu vaccination is another matter entirely;it protects only against a specific strain. I can understand a young healthy person not bothering. BUT, the flu CAN still kill you.

I agree with you on that point. This does pose a problem for medical funding. But then that is what your argument should be based on. Why WE should have to pay for public health care to treat a disease that is "preventable" by vaccination. I see it happen all the time. But then it opens a whole new can of warms because Type II diabetes is for the most part preventable. As is certain types of cancers and heart disease. So, do we stop treating those people as well?
I did not get vaccinated this year as there was a fear that I could contract something known as Gullian-Barres. It's a neuro system problem that comes from being exposed to a virus. Not fun as it causes paralysis. It is KNOWN to occur from vaccinations. Since I am at risk, I will no longer be vaccinated. Should I have to wear a badge...that signals me out? I work in healthcare...that could pose a problem to the type of care I am able to give.
The flu absolutely can kill you, so can't falling in the tub.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sit still how?I am perfectly aware of how diseases/viruses and bacteria's are transmitted. If you're saying people should be vaccinated to prevent transmission of the disease, then by default if you're vaccinated you prevented transmission. Correct? So why does it matter to you if someone who is not vaccinated exposes themselves to a disease? I am just curious as to what your rationale is.

Sitting still biologically speaking. Lets say you vaccinate for a specific strain of a specific pathogen (which is what we do). Group A gets vaccinated, group B does not. Group b is now a testing ground for that pathogen, allowing it the time and resources required to potentially overcome whatever defense we've established against it (and it has to, adapt or die). We're back to square one. Or, we can leverage an ounce of common sense and take the twenty seconds and pin-prick we get by going the route of complete vaccination. Smallpox being a great example. It is the only infectious disease that we have ever been able to lay claim to eradication from, and this was not achieved by willy nilly, "come in if you like" vaccination programs. Still, we're terrified of modified strains of smallpox being weaponized. We're terrified of this because it is terrifying and easily within the realm of probability, (perhaps even eventuality). When we talk vaccination we're talking about an attempt to eradicate something that has been preying upon us, successfully, for hundreds of thousands of years at the very least. So my vaccinations will protect me, fantastic, but how far down the line are we going to have to reinvent the smallpox vaccine because some complete nutjob felt they had an inalienable right to say no to public health policy? What happened last time we went scrambling for a vaccine? Death on a massive scale.

[Melanbee]

Godwins law, it's so fucking true.


Melanbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I think in the UK we only vaccinate old people for influenza, but i'm not completely sure. I thought the flu was only realy a problem for old people or people who live in backwater countries........oh right, maybe you should've got the jabs ;D *chuckles to himself*

Hello 5thHorseman....what's up with all the eeeeeeeeeeeeee's?
The flu is a problem for everyone. It kills a lot of people. Our immunocompromised is a high risk for dying if they contract the flu. Sadly, it does not care which part of the world you live in.

[Shell B]

There was "no way" for the flu to cross the barrier from cattle to human beings..until there was.

Which is why you should be careful around any livestock. You should even wash your hands after handling your pets.

Why are these gloves and the washing of hands any different? I could wash my hands and wear gloves all day long and that wouldn't even dent my ability to become the next Typhoid Mary.

Bullshit. I had to take numerous classes on food safety and am (was, actually, I'm slightly out of date) board of health certified in two states. It's not just washing your hands and wearing gloves. It is the temperature of the food you serve and the handling of it. You can be very ill and still handle food safely. However . . . if you are vomiting or have diarrhea, you are not even allowed in a kitchen.

Pathogens can be harder to nail to the wall than jello. Is vaccination not a safety precaution that is in place for such things.

Yes, they can be hard to nail. It is also hard to catch something if you are smart about it and those who handle your food are smart about. Mel is a perfect example of that. She has been working with sick people for years. Sure, she gets sick. Last I checked, she hasn't caught Rubella.

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Just to be clear, viruses evolve with or without human hosts, in most cases. There are very few (if any) viruses that do not have a host in the "animal" kingdom.