Abstaining from Vaccination should NOT be a right

[kılıç_mehmet]

Who would "willingly" abstain from vaccination anyways?
although well, it's not always that I get a shot.
But when I do, I get them all.

[Melanbee]

She is a misinformed medical professional. Most vaccines are NOT live viruses anymore. That pretty much went out of fashion 20 someodd years ago.

Misinformed healthcare professionals? Pfft. I asked, and we are vaccinated to protect ourselves first, the patient second. I'm not sure what country you live in...perhaps your standards are different? I graduated with a nurse who works at Mass General and she said it's the same there. Vaccinate for yourself first and patient second.
Also, you can not be fired for refusal to be vaccinated for medial or religious reasons. I know, as I just had to go through that whole process as I am currently not vaccinated against the Flu.

[The Grand Nudger]

Public toilet seat,maybe, outhouse in the middle of the woods. It was most likely direct physical contact. My family used to live next to a large fundy nutter community who were absolutely certain that vaccinations were against the will of god. You see, infectious disease is just a function of this rock, inescapable and completely in accordance with His will. Probably uses it to punish the sinners. My uncle and a few other children got polio, but polio isn't fair...and it wasn't the nutters children who ended up in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives (not to mention a laundry list of other assorted issues), nor was the carrier (whoever the fuck that asshole was) laid low. I'm sure they pointed to my uncle Chuck as proof that god loved them, since their kids got polio too and didn't end up like him, godless heathen that he was.

Our concepts of rights, and our motivations for them (in this case religious, in others secular) all have their origins in a time when things like this were a complete or relative unknown. Perhaps our dated ideologies are not up to the task of handling an issue for which they were not designed, or for which no consideration had been given before they become the gospel fucking word. Our rights mean jack shit if they erode the stability of our continued existence here in whole or in part. There have to be people to have rights, and if our rights are fucking killing people just how well thought out are they? These rights can't just sound good, they have to work, and they have to be applied in an intelligent manner. The right to subvert or endanger others by ignoring or rejecting public health policies should not be available.

[Melanbee]

I immunize my children for everything except Influenza. That vaccination is just plain silly.

You are gravely misinformed, willfully ignorant, or plain stupid.

Influenza is not something to be ignored. I could list several flu pandemics, but part of me thinks you're too deluded to change your stupid beliefs despite the risks you are exposing your children to. Influenza is quite mutable and has similar tendencies to the common cold in hybridizing with other flues.

However, vaccines are still effective if the flu one catches has a root or parent that the vaccine was derived from.

To put it simply, the influenza vaccine knocks out a whole subfamily of influenza that the CDC determines as 'most common'. By extension, you are able to better fight off an influenza infection despite being in different cities, states, etc,.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2N2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

A lot of people do not recognize that some vaccinations are live viruses and you are actually injecting yourself with a virus that your body has to fight off. Our bodies develop antibodies to it off...and if we are successful in the fight we are now immune. Hence, why if you have had the chicken pox you do not need to be vaccinated.

You're indulging in a form of naturalistic fallacy, that our bodies will "take care of themselves" in creating antibodies.

I'd like to point out that people who caught polio either "develop antibodies to it off", after all polio has a 95% rate of doing nothing to infected patients.

The other 5% isn't so lucky -- here's a lucky one:



Also, "live viruses" in a vaccine are "attenuated" viruses. In other words, purposefully weakened and damaged viruses that posses the same signature as the harsh, nasty, virulent forms.

Furthermore, you can request a killed virues vaccine, which is mostly just virus parts to train your immune system to recognize. It doesn't imprint the signature of the virus into your immune systems memory (like an attenuated one would) because it's just a bunch of proteins instead of the whole virus capsid.

In other words, you're wrong.

Lucky for me you live where you live and I live where I live. Also, lucky for me you are not a doctor or a policy maker. Phew! So....in all actuality you opinion means jack crap to me. Calling me stupid doesn't hurt my feelings but apparently it makes you feel better about your stand. I do not feel a need to get on a forum and prove my point...which was never that we should not vaccinate. Again, had you read the previous post you would realize that I AM in favor of vaccinating. I do not vaccinate against the influenza because I was recently diagnoses with MS and have a weakened immune system as well. I have some sort of virus that has attacked my neurological system. Again, had you read the above posts you would have seen where I mentioned that I was at risk for developing Guillian-Barres (often times is acquired through being given a vaccination). My children are not vaccinated because their doctor, yes their doctor, has stated that they did not need it. My son was in the ICU this past fall and we discussed having him vaccinated. It was decided, by his ICU doctor, that he should not be vaccinated. Hmm....I guess he must be an idiot as well. I am not misinformed, I do my research and do what is best based on facts not philosophical ideology. So you can continue harping on me...because apparently that's what you do.

[The Grand Nudger]

MS? brutal shit. Good luck.

[Melanbee]

MS? brutal shit. Good luck.

Thanks but I did not tell my health history on here to get sympathy. I told it to express that a lot of you have no idea what the reasons are why someone will not vaccinate. I took care of a women once who ended up dying because she was given a vaccination. At first she was paralyzed and appeared to have a stroke but eventually they proved it was a vaccination she had received. That is a very REAL reason why people don't vaccinate.
Also, there has been arguments that vaccines can cause autism. I'm not a believer of that and again I will point out(before someone goes on a tangent) that I do vaccinate. However, I will argue, that as a parent it is our job to do things to protect our children. And if something doesn't feel right to me and if all of the research isn't backing it up... government be damned. Protect my children first, the world second. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. So I can understand why some people do not want to vaccinate. Especially if you are a believer in more natural holistic health care.
I think it's funny how some of you are arguing that the government should have the right to force you to be vaccinated. I'm wondering are they saying that the government knows what's best? I work for the government for a non profit organization and I love my government, for the most part. I am not under the impression that they know best. Look at the US right now and the trouble we are in, look at the leaders we have had. The government does not know best.

[The Grand Nudger]

The government knows best, in this case, because of the massive amount of information available on the subject. If vaccination were a bad idea then they wouldn't (and I'd be on a soapbox about it, most likely). Our suspicions of government should enter into this exactly how? There are valid reasons for not vaccinating. We did discuss that. Those who have such reasons are relying on the rest of us who do not as their first line of defense. However, the reasons that Moros, myself, and possibly Phil are objecting to are batshit crazy and or ideologically motivated but not exactly well thought out (in our opinions).

Does the smallpox vaccine not feel right to you? Is the evidence not behind it?

[Shell B]

The government knows best, in this case, because of the massive amount of information available on the subject.

Really? Right now, the government doesn't force people to get vaccinated. I believe what you are trying to say, is you know best, because you read some stuff about it. I'm just teasing you, but in all seriousness, the government already has policies that make it so you don't have to vaccinate. You're saying they know best. Well, if they know best, why are you arguing against them?

[The Grand Nudger]

Why not? Because of our aversion to such things along the lines of the arguments you've presented. It's not like they haven't considered making it mandatory. That's how we ended up with the rules surrounding schools. It was a compromise. Google it.

Yeah, I read about it, I decided that having some information on it would be interesting. This erodes my credibility how? Care to point out where I've mixed up any facts? Care to point out where my argument is lacking? I appreciate that you don't agree, but so what? It's not that I think I know best, just better than an anti-vaxxer. Unless you'd disagree with that too. Which vaccinations might end up on any mandate I leave up to more educated individuals than myself, which is precisely why I have stuck to the big ones in every argument I've made. Smallpox, polio, rubella, shit that has killed untold numbers of people, which we can now prevent.

[Melanbee]

The government knows best, in this case, because of the massive amount of information available on the subject. If vaccination were a bad idea then they wouldn't (and I'd be on a soapbox about it, most likely). Our suspicions of government should enter into this exactly how? There are valid reasons for not vaccinating. We did discuss that. Those who have such reasons are relying on the rest of us who do not as their first line of defense. However, the reasons that Moros, myself, and possibly Phil are objecting to are batshit crazy and or ideologically motivated but not exactly well thought out (in our opinions).

Does the smallpox vaccine not feel right to you? Is the evidence not behind it?

Are you not reading what I am writing? Or perhaps I am somehow not coming across the right way. Because now I am just getting pissed. No one seems to be really reading what I am saying, which just proves that you all want to go on a rant about something just because you can.

For the last fucking time....I VACCINATE! Not against the influenza because I have specific reasons why I did not vaccinate against it this year. GRRRRRR

So to answer your question, yes small pox vaccines feel right to me.