About death and the children.

[Madscientist]

Hello all.
A beloved aunt of mine died recently, and it brought up some problems that bug me quite a lot.
the fact is that this person was mentally impaired, and i was the one who took care of her. She was somewhat autonomous and lived in her own appartments in the basement of my house, along with her companion and her brother, both of wich are also mentally impaired.
Fact is that those people where really close to my childrens, and i don't really know how to make them understand what happenned.
More so, my girlfriend (i'm not married and will never be) is a low level believer, wich she claimed not to be a few years ago but changed her mind in the meantime. She does'nt claim any organized religion links, and her view seem to me like tending toward boudhism. Problem is that at every occasion, be it new birth, marriage or funerals, she insist on taking the children to the church, more in fear of what the people will say if we do not than anything else i presume, but it is getting quite painfull on me.
When i met her, i claerly insisted on the fact that i did'nt wanted any religion near mw children till they are old enough to understant what it is all about, but looks like it did'nt worked that way finally... Well, i managed to prevent them from being babtised (sure it is not the good word...) but they got in a church way to soon for my taste.

Anyway, i'm getting of my at hand subject...
In a few word, what i want to heard about is how you would deal with all this death thing, considering that i live in an environnement where my ''extreme'' anti-religious views arre more often than not considered as bordering the ridiculous...

[lilphil1989]

Hello all.
A beloved aunt of mine died recently, and it brought up some problems that bug me quite a lot.
the fact is that this person was mentally impaired, and i was the one who took care of her. She was somewhat autonomous and lived in her own appartments in the basement of my house, along with her companion and her brother, both of wich are also mentally impaired.
Fact is that those people where really close to my childrens, and i don't really know how to make them understand what happenned.
More so, my girlfriend (i'm not married and will never be) is a low level believer, wich she claimed not to be a few years ago but changed her mind in the meantime. She does'nt claim any organized religion links, and her view seem to me like tending toward boudhism. Problem is that at every occasion, be it new birth, marriage or funerals, she insist on taking the children to the church, more in fear of what the people will say if we do not than anything else i presume, but it is getting quite painfull on me.
When i met her, i claerly insisted on the fact that i did'nt wanted any religion near mw children till they are old enough to understant what it is all about, but looks like it did'nt worked that way finally... Well, i managed to prevent them from being babtised (sure it is not the good word...) but they got in a church way to soon for my taste.

Anyway, i'm getting of my at hand subject...
In a few word, what i want to heard about is how you would deal with all this death thing, considering that i live in an environnement where my ''extreme'' anti-religious views arre more often than not considered as bordering the ridiculous...

How old are they?
Personally, I'd just tell it as it is. She's gone. People's bodies stop working and they die, it's a fact of life.

As for your children being taking to chuch, I'd insist that if she wants to take them to a church, she spends an equal amount of time taking them to a synagogue, mosque, temple to the greek pantheon, holy pasta shop etc etc. Exposure to more than one religion is a good demonstration that choice between religions is arbitrary, and the conflictions between them show that none have any truth value.
Also, I think she needs to realise that taking children to church is indoctrinating them into christianity, and that telling children unprovable assertions that have no evidence for them, as though they are fact, is child abuse.

[Giff]

Don't need to go to the church just because someone dies. It will probably be hard for children to deal with the sadness that death does when happen to someone they love.

Support them and let them grief but don't take them to a church. that's just not nessessary.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think, ultimately you have to make a choice about which is most important.

1. Telling your girlfriend honestly that you don't like the children being sent to church and making it very clear the reasons why and how important it is to you.

Or 2. not upsetting your girlfriend or getting "frowned upon" by her or others (or whatever) FOR not wanting the children to go the church.

The decision may be tough. But ultimately I think you still have to basically just decide what's really important.

I agree entirely with Phil that sending children to church before they're old enough to understand is a form of indoctrination; and I ALSO think childhood indoctrination is child abuse. (So it's important to also know, how old are your children?)

If it were me in your position I'd just HAVE to come out and say the honest thing that I didn't think it was right - whether other people/my girlfriend liked it or not - I'd also do my best to do it in a cool, calm way too. It's important to keep your cool I think. And I think that also has more chance of getting a (more) positive response.

Welcome to the forums Madscientist.

EvF

EDIT: Oh, PS: You say your anti-religious views are considered extreme where you live...so if you don't mind me asking, I was wondering; where do you live?

[fr0d0]

I think your on very dodgy ground with your partner. Women rule the household and make these decisions despite what blokes say. Blokes just don't figure in importance, unless you have an oppressively male culture that would repress it.

IMO all you can do is discuss it with your partner and hope she sees your point.

I too am interested in your environment.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think your on very dodgy ground with your partner. Women rule the household and make these decisions despite what blokes say. Blokes just don't figure in importance, unless you have an oppressively male culture that would repress it.

IMO all you can do is discuss it with your partner and hope she sees your point.

Well, fr0d0, IMO you're stereotyping whether you happen to be right or not in this particular situation.

@: Madscientist - that you should just 'hope she sees your point' because surely you do have a say in the matter too? And I think it's important to find a solution or AT LEAST some compromise. Ultimately what's more important, what your partner thinks of you/how she will react or the children not being indoctrinated into a bullshit Church from such an early age?

I personally think it is a very important decision to make (but there's no absolute rush, it's important to stay calm and not panic of course). I don't think it's something you should just 'discuss and hope'. I mean if your partner disagrees you might not want to just let her keep taking the children to the Church and have them 'brought up' some way. Perhaps you'd need to find a peaceful solution, a way around that?

I think it's a very important decision and not simply a 'discuss and hope she sees your point'.

That's what I think anyway.

EvF

[chatpilot]

Welcome to the forums madscientist. I have two daughters ages 14 and 11 years old and they both have been to church with their mom and I dont really approve of it either.But because of their ages and since I am no longer with their mom I dont really have no say or no way of preventing them from going to church.I did tell them that they are too young to make the adult decisions about religion and to concentrate now on school and what is important to them.

My girls are fully aware that I am an atheist and when they ask for my opinion about something religious they get an atheist response.I am lucky because the mom is not fanatical and only goes to church occasionally when her brother comes by and invites her.Because of her more secular life style my girls are showing signs of leaning toward atheism but in the end I leave that up to them.I dont know the ages of your children but if they are at an age where they can understand the basics just be open with them on religious matters and let them make the choice on where they stand on their own.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think Madscientist said he has 2 children, 1 of '4 years old' and another of '19 months' So VERY young for religious indoctrination I say! Not really old enough to make choices on their own...which is particularly why it isn't right for them to be 'brought up' that way I think (And if they WERE old enough to make choices about religion on their own then it wouldn't really count as being 'brought up' religious if it started from such a later age (because they'd be old enough to make their own decisions about the matter so it wouldn't really be indoctrination))

EvF

[chatpilot]

Definately too young to make any kind of decisions about religion.But in a sense I do consider it indoctrination.My tag line applies perfectly here.

[fr0d0]

Stating the nature of the female isn't stereotyping Evie. It's bollocks over political correctness to shy away from biological differences.

So you would force the mother to follow your rules Evie? IMO that would have the opposite effect. Your only hope is to use reason, and not force. You should also give children more credit. You shouldn't ever underestimate the influence of another viewpoint. Worst case scenario would be the removal of that influence.