Question for the theist.

[Madscientist]

I was surfing the site, thinking about some concept, and i got an interogation.

Most religion condone earthly pleasure to a degree or another (Well i think so, not that knowledgable in term of religion).
Follower say that they must endure those privation in order to obtain the right to enter some sort of paradise.
When learning about our atheism, most will ask if we do not fear the nothingness that await our soul after dead if we are right, or worst still the hell waiting for us if we are wrong.
But i'm asking myself, do theist ever fear that it may all be for nothing, that they are depriving themselves of everyday pleasure in order to obtain a paradise that may not be?

Is really there such a thing as unwavering faith?

[icthus]

Madscientist, there is a such a thing as an unwavering faith. That is why people lay down there lives everyday for whatever their cause is. Your question is about religion and the afterlife though so let me tell you about my faith please. You state that we will enter paradise because of depriving ourselves of some kind of earthly pleasure. I will enter paradise not because of something that I have or have not done but because of what Christ has done for me.

If,after my life is done,and there is only nothingness as you state,what have I lost because of my faith? Nothing-I still had a wonderful life because of my faith-however ,you speak of a hell in your post,so if I am correct I have gained everything.

Now please let me rephrase your question and let me know what you think. Does the atheist ever worry that he will suffer in this hell that you speak of just for a little bit of earthly pleasure? Let me close with the statement that--I HAVE AN UNWAVERING FAITH--

Icthus

[Demonaura]

Pascal's wager then? Your odds of being right are as infinitely tiny as ours in that case.

I do not doubt you had a good life, if you claim it so I see no reason to doubt but, there are many who give up everything for their faith. Their whole lives are spent tasting the dirt while they bow to their supposed god. They have lost everything if they are wrong because they were not able to respect the one and only chance they had at living a full life.

These people are of all religions, christians have given their life early, maybe not as publicly or violently as you see muslims in the news but, it happens. They ran the chance at giving up the only thing they ever truly had.

Quick numbers, 22 major religions above 500k followers according to http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

38,000 different denominations of christianity, many of which beleive they are the only ones that will ascend to heaven. (http://christianity.about.com/od/denomin...ntoday.htm)

If your reason for belief if that you think you stand to lose nothing and gain everything your logic is flawed, your odds are as small as anyone else and your faith has nothing to place it as a better choice than any other.

On top of everything you will never know just what you did give up, your life may seem to be quite good but, unless you have actually experienced free life (in that you can have thought for yourself) you cannot understand it and say you know your life was full.

[Tiberius]

If,after my life is done,and there is only nothingness as you state,what have I lost because of my faith? Nothing-I still had a wonderful life because of my faith-however ,you speak of a hell in your post,so if I am correct I have gained everything.

Pascal's Wager - Some things to think about.

1) What if the Muslims are correct? Then the Christian and the atheist have both lost.
2) What if religion x is correct? Same again!
3) What if god exists but applauds honest disbelief and condemns blind faith? After all, didn't god give us our free will? It would be quite hypocritical to then condemn us for using it.
4) What if your Bible is incorrect about who goes to Heaven; it was written by men after all...
5) If there is no god, you could argue you have lost nothing, but I would argue you have lost your life, the only thing that was important. You spent it going around trying to convert people when you could have been doing so many cool things instead.
6) The whole wager is a false dichotomy; how do you know there aren't many places you go when you die (instead of just two).
7) The wager reduces god down to a mere fool, because it says that people "ought" to believe. However such a wager does not tell the people how to believe, or even make the person believe. I could go around telling people I "believed" in god but if I died and faced it on judgment day, I doubt an all-powerful god would see past that ruse, and if it did, what kind of god is that?

[g-mark]

What if we have all lost?

[Violet]

The popular forms of gods (being all-powerful, all-encompasing, all-loving, and/or all-knowing [etc.]) are completely impossible. If one defines their gods without these charicteristics: their gods might be possible.

However, the Christian god is supposedly all-powerful, all-encompasing, all-loving, and all-knowing. This makes the Christian god false. Where there is falsehood... there is also truth. An unwavering will is only possible in those who cannot realize the truth. This is only possible through either extreme lack of inteliigence, or by serrious brainwashing.

icthus, if you have an unwavering will: one or the either must be true.

[Madscientist]

Madscientist, there is a such a thing as an unwavering faith. That is why people lay down there lives everyday for whatever their cause is. Your question is about religion and the afterlife though so let me tell you about my faith please. You state that we will enter paradise because of depriving ourselves of some kind of earthly pleasure. I will enter paradise not because of something that I have or have not done but because of what Christ has done for me.

So, faith alone is enough to receive the afterlife rewards?
You could be a murderer, child rapist, or anything else as horrible, but as long as you have faith then the sacrifice of Jesus will allow you to be forgiven when the final judgment is made?
You could be a real bad drugies, indulging in group sex and Jesus sacrifice will save you?
Convenient...

If,after my life is done,and there is only nothingness as you state,what have I lost because of my faith? Nothing-I still had a wonderful life because of my faith-however ,you speak of a hell in your post,so if I am correct I have gained everything.

As other have said, if we are right you have lost the possibility to live the life YOU have chosen, live by the value YOU have chosen.

Now please let me rephrase your question and let me know what you think. Does the atheist ever worry that he will suffer in this hell that you speak of just for a little bit of earthly pleasure? Let me close with the statement that--I HAVE AN UNWAVERING FAITH--

I can't talk for other, but i don't.
I'm supremely convinced that it is impossible for heaven or hell to exist.
You could say that i have unwavering faith in that, but it is not faith. It is the answer i have made for myself looking at every side of it and considering all the data i had avaible.

3) What if god exists but applauds honest disbelief and condemns blind faith? After all, didn't god give us our free will? It would be quite hypocritical to then condemn us for using it.

Very interesting concept indeed...

[fr0d0]

The popular forms of gods (being all-powerful, all-encompasing, all-loving, and/or all-knowing [etc.]) are completely impossible. If one defines their gods without these charicteristics: their gods might be possible.

However, the Christian god is supposedly all-powerful, all-encompasing, all-loving, and all-knowing. This makes the Christian god false. Where there is falsehood... there is also truth. An unwavering will is only possible in those who cannot realize the truth. This is only possible through either extreme lack of inteliigence, or by serrious brainwashing.

icthus, if you have an unwavering will: one or the either must be true.

Untrue. This only applies in scientific examination, and scientific examination doesn't apply.

[Tiberius]

You could be a real bad drugies, indulging in group sex and Jesus sacrifice will save you?

Just wanted to bold a part of your post I found rather interesting (and odd). Exactly why do you lump people who participate in group sex with "drugies"? What is wrong with group sex that you would think to lump them together with criminals?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Untrue. This only applies in scientific examination, and scientific examination doesn't apply.

I know you claim that but you haven't demonstrated logically or reasonably why that should be so.

Kyu