Introduction

[ghostlighter]

Hello,
My name is Dillon. I don't believe in God as a supreme being. I am willing to entertain the idea of god as a state of conciousness, though. I tend to question and doubt everything like a scientist. The "believer's" view does not often stand up to scrutiny of any kind. Religion thrives by creating environments where nothing was ever questioned or scrutinized. There is no doubt the scientists have better informed the human race and also better helped the human race via discovery of medicines and technology. What has religion done really but bring us down and pull us into sensless wars? Some may ask "But is science going to save you when all hope is lost?" Well, no. But neither is God.

I'd love to share views with all who are interested in finding the honest truth: believers and non-believes alike, so drop me a line anytime.

Dillon

[Tiberius]

Welcome to the forums Dillon

[Edwardo Piet]

Greetings. Welcome Dillon! Welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay.

I too also care about the honest truth. I care a great deal

EvF

[ghostlighter]

Hi Adrian and EvF. I saw some of your posts over in the science forum. I'd like to know what you think about the "honest truth" EvF. To me, the scientist is the most honest of the buch. Philosophers seem to be on the right track with their deductive reasoning and passionate observation but after a while you can kind of get a little whiff of bullshit coming off the pages of their books like: yeah they think they know but they don't know. The scientist starts with: I don't know anything and builds from that, and lo and behold we have cures for diseases, sattelite TV and some reliable information. And it didn't even involve a collection basket. I give a little more credence to eastern philosophies such as yoga (yes, yoga) buddhism and taoism, and only as philosophies and practices. There is a mythological aspect to each of the philosophies listed, which I don't buy into. Judism and Christianity-- forget it. Islam- hell no! While each might provide a decent moral parable, nugget of wisdom or helpful compassionate outlook, they are all based on a narrow arid lifeless world-view which confines and depletes humanity more than it nourishes it.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah I'll at least pretty much go with that.

What do I think about honest truth? Well I just think it's important really. What can I say?

I care mostly about two things when it comes down to it: The Truth and Empathy.

The this perhaps comes down to a third thing too: Being honest about your own feelings.

I also don't like it when others aren't honest to me about THEIR feelings. I don't get nasty with them though (or I at least try to) I just try to get them to be more honest with themselves, and in turn that makes them more honest with others too (including myself hopefully).

I don't care if people insult me for example - because it's honest. It doesn't bother. It's if they PRETEND to LIKE me that I don't like. If people want me to "fuck off" I want to be told. Because I hate talking to some one for ages while they pretend they're interested and/or like me and only for them to tell me to "fuck off" AFTERWARDS.

So as an example there - I would much rather an insulting truth (or MUCH rather, rather - cos I don't even care!) than something seemingly more positive that only turns out to be something negative that has been postponed because of emotional or intellectual dishonesty (or both).

Why aren't I bothered by insults? Because if the insult is TRUE then they are right and if anything I should be ashamed of myself (depending on how negative the insult is that actually holds true).

If they are WRONG and the insult is complete bollocks, why would I be offended? If it's nonsense I should just laugh at them..

IOW most importantly: I care about the truth and also intellectual honestly and feelings and empathy. But I also care about emotional honesty a lot. Being true to one's own feelings.

Cos it really sux imo - when the fact that when some people aren't true to their own feelings then that secrecy fucks up how they're behaving towards others, such as me for example. Because at least I would rather be told to go away ([i]however[/i rudely that is so long as it's nothing physical and it's only words) than have my time wasted putting up with their dishonesty lol.

EvF

[leo-rcc]

Hi Dillon/Ghostlighter,

Welcome to the forum.

[ghostlighter]

You know EvF, you have some pretty profound views about honesty. But maybe you take it a bit too personally when others aren't honest with themselves. After all, sometimes people are brought up in environments where honesty with their own feelings is rebuked and punished. I was not brought up in this manner but I know many who were. The truth is that these people who aren't honest with themselves are in fact insecure. Perhaps in their view there are great consequences for their honesty. Perhaps they think nothing good will come of it. In the same vein of this discussion, I would like to know your views on morallity and if you are familiar with the thinking of the German philosopher Fredrich Nietzshe. He made some of the same assumptions about a lack of emotional honesty. He tied this in with a critique of morallity (especially in Geneology of Morals).

[Edwardo Piet]

I try to HELP others when they're not honest with themselves though. I try and encourage them to be.

One way is I encourage them to tell me to go away if they are thinking it. I hate it when people pretend to NOT dislike me out of politeness only to throw it in my face later!

Because also, the thing is - I'm not a mind reader, y'know?

Sometimes I will THINK that someone's pretending to like me - when actually they do!

So I hate the guessing game. If people don't like something, I wish they'd say it (to me personally anyway...I can't speak for others). It's sad that there are so many sensitive people out there, which is fine in and of itself (of course) -but they don't like it when others are sensitive back. They tell them it's insensitive.

If those who are very sensitive are obviously allowed to be sensitive (no reason not to, there's nothing wrong with being sensitive - in fact many GOOD things) - shouldn't others be allowed to be sensitive to their sensitivity? Without being called insensitive? (depends though of course) - I think it's double standards if it's insensitive to be sensitive to sensitivity.

EvF

[ghostlighter]

Well EvF, I think we all hate the guessing game. All I can do is try to be as honest with you as I can about how I feel about you, since I know how you feel about it. I am delighted to have any intelligent conversation. And if you're a thinker, rest assured I probably like you even if we are vastly different in other aspects. But if this is something that troubles you, let me offer you some advice. Have you ever tried meditation? Meditation is a great tool for us thinkers, as we tend to think too much, maybe even thinking ourselves into circles and concern ourselves greatly with what is essentially not our problem. Meditation helps the mind to let go and ACCEPT things (especially things we cannot change.) Now I know that meditation is a rather "religious" thing and you are probably a pretty secular guy. But let me tell you, meditation is about CLEARING the mind not filling it up with more beliefs. In a way meditation is a practice of non-belief, so give it a try.

[Edwardo Piet]

I spent a whole year meditating none stop practically because I had no computer and nothing else to do but 'think' and be aware of my OWN thinking....

I'm still meditating though because now it's habital. I am almost constantly aware of my own thoughts (I mean in comparison to before the meditation it is a BIG difference) - and I find that to be excellent because I love being aware and thinking things through...

The only problem is it's totally automatic now so if my thoughts are bugging me I can't get them to go away.

I guess it's because forcing yourself OUT of being so self-aware is no less difficult than forcing yourself INTO being more self-aware when you're NOT very self aware :S

And I wouldn't want to anyway. Just means sometimes the voice in my head, when it nags a lot - I tend to be aware of it :S

But if I wasn't then I'd probably be worrying without realizing it - as I have in the past before meditation and before my awareness is increased. And TBH I am also well-aware that many (the majority, even vast majority I say IMHO) people do this a lot. They worry about stuff and then realize they were worrying afterwards (it's very common, even I get it rarely from time to time. But it's always mild cos I always catch it very early (now)). I'm practically always well-aware of worrying right from the beginning now - so even though I have to put up with it more OFTEN (VERY often lol) - I am actually doing it no more often I am simply aware of it more - and that often helps me stop it getting worse

IOW: I actually don't worry any MORE than before - I'm simply aware of it more so I catch my worrying earlier rather than realize my worries (sometimes ages) later.

Oh and, I enjoy intelligent discussions an awful lot too. And I am CERTAINLY a thinker!! (at least, I THINK I am lol ).

EvF