So lemme get this straight

[Cinjin]

relax that's not preaching. Nor have I ever banned you... nor could I.

Have you ever had money? Enough to put you in a different social class than those around you? I hear it is alots of fun for a while, then you begin to wonder who wants to be your friend because they care for you or who wants to be your friend because of what you have to offer. How could you possible know who's who unless everyone started out on a level playing field, and you offered your friendship without any verification or guarantees, that they will get anything other than what they put into the relationship.. you even allowed people to spread rumors and untruths about the nature of your wealth, and your motives. All in an effort to sift the wheat from the chaff, the wheat and the weeds. To allow those people seeking to be friends with the "wealthy" a glimpse at their true nature.. so when their petition is turned down their will be no doubt in their minds that their intentions were rightfully judged.

So why "belief?" Because it takes a humble heart to believe in an unknown or promise without security. Humility is the key element God is looking for in his followers. Why? Outside of "I said so." Humility shows the heart of one looking for a true relationship with someone they love rather than someone looking to take advantage of an opportunity.

The point you are trying to make is not lost on me, but the analogy is always going to be flawed because belief has nothing to do with love. The rich man in your analogy is not asking for friends to believe in his existence, merely to love him for who he is rather than his money/power. The rich man is also not looking for humility the way your god is, he is looking for genuine love and acceptance. In fact if the wealthy man is looking for humility, he's going to find a bunch of ass-kissers and phoney people, the exact opposite of what your god is SUPPOSEDLY looking for. I'm sorry, it doesn't work and it certainly does not answer the question of why ALL gods require belief in addition to love and worship.

[Drich]

Sorry, Just having some fun.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

There's humility, and then there's lethality. Sure, I could be "humble" and believe that everything worked according to the plan of a deity without proof, but not only would I be humble, I would inflict great harm upon others by spreading a belief that runs contrary to the advancement of science, vaccines, prosthetics, and just about anything else you use on a daily basis.

If a God wanted us to learn and display humility, he would presumably choose a method that would not force each individual to choose between the welfare of humanity and their personal reward.

[Kratos]

So Christianity was devised

Are you implying that Christianity was a pragmatic ideology designed by Jews to spread their ideology?

Yes.
The Jews are very intelligent.
They don't need the Bible now they have the Media.

[Tobie]

So Christianity was devised

Are you implying that Christianity was a pragmatic ideology designed by Jews to spread their ideology?

Yes.
The Jews are very intelligent.
They don't need the Bible now they have the Media.

Backfired a bit then.

[Tempus]

Also, "God" is a title and not a name.

I can confirm this. He even tells you his name in the Bible! It's "Jealous", in case anyone is wondering

[michaelsherlock]

Also, "God" is a title and not a name.

I can confirm this. He even tells you his name in the Bible! It's "Jealous", in case anyone is wondering

I thought it was 'Pimp Daddy Virgin Rapist' AKA; 'Baby Against Rock Smasher'!

[Drich]

The point you are trying to make is not lost on me, but the analogy is always going to be flawed because belief has nothing to do with love. The rich man in your analogy is not asking for friends to believe in his existence, merely to love him for who he is rather than his money/power.

On the surface perhaps, but if you look deeper into the actual requirements of friendship the underlining principle is a form of love the Greeks identified as Philia. If Philia is the goal then the physical presents of an individual is not necessary. What is, are the basic requirements that a friend or someone who shows this specific type of Love full fills their obligation. As with any friendship, even in the presents of a potential friend belief/faith is required in each other. Belief and faith that the person in question will offer the same kind of love you are offering them.

The rich man is also not looking for humility the way your god is, he is looking for genuine love and acceptance.

Which is the same thing God is looking for when you break down the principles to their core values.

In fact if the wealthy man is looking for humility, he's going to find a bunch of ass-kissers and phony people, the exact opposite of what your god is SUPPOSEDLY looking for.

You are not describing true humility, ass kissing for the sake of self promotion is not humility. It is a deceitful practice designed to promote one's self. Humility is yielding one's self to (in this case) to the authority of God.

I'm sorry, it doesn't work and it certainly does not answer the question of why ALL gods require belief in addition to love and worship.

That is a self answering question, for how can one worship and love if one does not believe?

[Cinjin]

The point you are trying to make is not lost on me, but the analogy is always going to be flawed because belief has nothing to do with love. The rich man in your analogy is not asking for friends to believe in his existence, merely to love him for who he is rather than his money/power.

On the surface perhaps, but if you look deeper into the actual requirements of friendship the underlining principle is a form of love the Greeks identified as Philia. If Philia is the goal then the physical presents of an individual is not necessary. What is, are the basic requirements that a friend or someone who shows this specific type of Love full fills their obligation. As with any friendship, even in the presents of a potential friend belief/faith is required in each other. Belief and faith that the person in question will offer the same kind of love you are offering them.

That is your own opinion. Belief/faith are not required for someone to be my friend, and you overstep your own Christian views when you say that the love offered should be the same love given. I know of no christian who would walk down that road with you ... implying that you can love god equally to the way that he loves you. Suddenly you now you have given yourself equal footing with your all powerful god to help you make your point. Also you fail miserably comparing belief in the power of one's love to belief in one's existence. It's a false dichotomy ... the two are not remotely the same no matter how much you try to make the case.

The rich man is also not looking for humility the way your god is, he is looking for genuine love and acceptance.

Which is the same thing God is looking for when you break down the principles to their core values.

Is this not back peddling?? You JUST said that your god is looking for humility. YOUR words. Scroll back, I'm quoting your response here. I have never sought out humility from a friend. That's absurd.

In fact if the wealthy man is looking for humility, he's going to find a bunch of ass-kissers and phony people, the exact opposite of what your god is SUPPOSEDLY looking for.

You are not describing true humility, ass kissing for the sake of self promotion is not humility. It is a deceitful practice designed to promote one's self. Humility is yielding one's self to (in this case) to the authority of God.

Exactly my point ... and here we see that you have reversed positions once again and we are back to god commanding humility ... not an equal friend and companion. You're all over the map here. We should clarify our positions before we progress:
My position: The rich man is NOT looking for humility, he's looking for real love and affection regardless of his money/power. Your god on the other hand, needs people to first believe in his very existence, NOT, as you said, in his true and devout friendship. I stand by the fact that your analogy is flawed from the start due to proof of existence. I mentioned the false dichotomy above.
Your position: Belief and love go hand in hand and one must submit himself as humble to somehow be on an equal playing field concerning the love of god.
The whole point of our little debate here is that you claim god MUST have belief and humility before he can love you and you can love him. This is your own opinion, and you are welcome to it, but trying to sell it is pointless ... as it is a ridiculous notion.

I'm sorry, it doesn't work and it certainly does not answer the question of why ALL gods require belief in addition to love and worship.

That is a self answering question, for how can one worship and love if one does not believe?

Thats NOT the point of my original statement is it?! Of course I'm not going to love the Easter Bunny, because he does not exist. However, if the Easter Bunny showed up one day and talked to me and turned out to be an awesome being, who knows ... maybe I would love him. The point is, he's not commanding me to believe in his very existence first. Don't move the goal posts! What I said was, WHY does God require belief??? Show UP and if you're worthy I will love you freely.

Don't change the whole point of the debate we're having. Of course you have to know someone exists, that's my whole damn point!

[Rev. Rye]

So Christianity was devised

Are you implying that Christianity was a pragmatic ideology designed by Jews to spread their ideology?

Yes.
The Jews are very intelligent.
They don't need the Bible now they have the Media.

I'm asking this because Judaism isn't really the religion that likes to be spread. It's a fundamentally tribal religion, inextricable from questions of ancestry, and Jews just don't like to convert people, unless they're really dedicated to it. If memory serves, you have to be turned down three times before you're allowed to convert.