THE BIBLE: God’s Word or Man’s?

[Alter2Ego]

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God.

Evidence? Yes indeed there is,but evidence is not a synonym for proof. The Torah is the [ at least partially plagiarised] mythology of an insignificant tribe of bronze age goat herders. That mythology is neither credible evidence nor proof any of the claims you have made.

In case the name was not enough of a hint,this is an ATHEIST FORUM. That means most people here do not believe in gods. (theists are allowed,over my objections) IF you want to claim something was inspired by a god,you need first to establish (prove) the existence of that god. So far, not one person in recorded history has managed that task.

PS Abraham and Mose are almost certainly both mythical figures.

ALTER2EGO -to- PADRAIC:
As examples of the Bible being inspired by God, I presented in my OP the examples of two Bible writers who knew the earth is a 3D circle that hangs upon nothing. They knew this info centuries before any other people knew it--which is hardly examples of, as you put it, the plagiarized writings of goat herders.

BTW: Upon what do you base your speculation that Abraham and Moses are mythical figures? Do you have any evidence of this?

FYI: I'm well aware that this is an atheist forum. I don't have anything against people who chose to be atheists. I hope you don't mind.

[Alter2Ego]

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. No other religious book has been able to prove such.

Your statement makes the massive assumption that the God of the bible is a fact and based upon that 'fact' the bible must be the inspired word of God because it says so.

Before you make statements such as this and especially if you are going to capitalise the word EVIDENCE you must first successfully demonstrate beyond all reasonable doubt and to a very high scientific standard the the God of the bible is a real entity otherwise everything else that follows on from your premise can never be taken seriously.

I look forward to your evidence and congratulate you on your forthcoming Nobel prize.

ALTER2EGO -to- DARWINIAN:
I'm in the process of presenting evidence to the forum that the Bible is the inspired word of God. In fact, I did present two pieces of evidence in my OP, where I quoted from the book of Isaiah and the book of Job (in which descriptions of the earth are given). More evidence will be forthcoming.

[Alter2Ego]

How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E. and Christopher Columbus did not make his first journey across the Atlantic until 1492 AD/CE or 2,224 years AFTER Isaiah wrote that the earth is a circle?

You are prepared to prove when Isaiah (as well as Job) were written, of course? Bet you a dollar you can't produce any empirical evidence to support a claim that authorship was before.... (see next paragraph)

The ancient Greeks knew the earth was spherical (not circular) at least as early as the 6th century BCE. Europeans were Johnny-come-lately to the spherical earth party.

As for your other questions, let's dismantle one bullshit claim at a time, m'kay?

The book of Isaiah has been dated to 732 B.C.E or the 8th Century B.C.E, which puts it 200 years ahead of the Greeks. And then of course there's the matter of the book of Job which describes the earth as hanging upon nothing--indicating invisible gravity.It wasn't until the 20th century that astronauts were able to confirm what Moses wrote in the book of Job, that the earth indeed appears to be hanging upon nothing when seen from outer space.

[KichigaiNeko]

Sorry to interrupt guys but this Alter2Ego seems to be a bit of a hit and runner??

[Zen Badger]

In Leviticus, Bats(mammals) are grouped with birds.

How did your god manage to overlook that little fact?

[Darwinian]

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. No other religious book has been able to prove such.

Your statement makes the massive assumption that the God of the bible is a fact and based upon that 'fact' the bible must be the inspired word of God because it says so.

Before you make statements such as this and especially if you are going to capitalise the word EVIDENCE you must first successfully demonstrate beyond all reasonable doubt and to a very high scientific standard the the God of the bible is a real entity otherwise everything else that follows on from your premise can never be taken seriously.

I look forward to your evidence and congratulate you on your forthcoming Nobel prize.

ALTER2EGO -to- DARWINIAN:
I'm in the process of presenting evidence to the forum that the Bible is the inspired word of God. In fact, I did present two pieces of evidence in my OP, where I quoted from the book of Isaiah and the book of Job (in which descriptions of the earth are given). More evidence will be forthcoming.

So what you are saying is that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so. And we know the Bible is true because it is the inspired word of God. And we know that the Bible is the inspired word of God because the Bible says so.

Hmmm..

[Creed of Heresy]

SO BASICALLY you're saying that your circular logic bullshit is credible evidence.

Do you SERIOUSLY expect people on this website who DON'T take everything at face value to buy this bullshit, or are you just on a particularly high dosage of quaaludes? ._.

Also the bible said that the earth is laid on a foundation and unmoving and that the sun revolves around the earth. And that there are four-legged insects. And that rabbits chew their own cud: Leviticus 11:5-6 Rabbits (Coney) chew their cud and because of this they are unclean. In Genesis 1:1 it says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.", then later on in Genesis 1:8 it says "And God called the firmament Heaven." So did he create heaven twice? Are there two heavens? I thought maybe the first statement was just saying what God did, then it was going to explain in detail how he created heaven and earth... but in Genesis 1:2 the earth has already been created. So I have to believe that there was a double creation of heaven.

According to the Bible, our brother mammal, the bat, is a bird. This one I've debated quite a bit, but if one looks in Leviticus 11:13 a list of Fowls is started, and the Bat is included in this list in Leviticus 11:19. The locust, grasshopper, and beetle all have four feet according to Leviticus 11:22, then in the next verse, it mentions a group of flying animals with four feet. I can't think of any, can you?

Sunlight brings us to another problem. We know the sun was created on the forth day... but plants were created on the third day. We know plants require sunlight to live, so why did God make these things in this backwards order? Now if we take the literal time frame, and a day in creation as being a 24 hour period, the plant thing isn't a real problem... plants can survive 24 hours. But then the whole creation story loses credibility... who really believes the universe was created in less than a week? Not even most creationists believe that one. That is why many people say that a day in the creation was 1,000 to 7,000 years (depending on who you ask). Name a plant that can live 7,000 years with perfect conditions... much less with no sunlight.

The term "ends of the earth" is used quite a bit in the Bible. I have received hundreds of e-mails saying "the term 'ends of the earth' is a saying, it's not literal", but they forget that it is a figurative saying today. When the Bible was written it wasn't a figure of speech... it was a fact. Even as late as 1492, people were convinced that silly old Columbus was going to fall off of the earth. But as we know today, the earth is a sphere, and there are no ends on a sphere. Just pick up a ball and find its ends.

Back to your "Descriptions of the earth via Job."
Job chapter 38 has a lot of mentions of a stationary earth, and as direct quotes from God. Quotes like the following:

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." - Job 38:4

"Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;" - Job 38:6

Really, do these sound like descriptions of a world that spins on its axis, while at the same time revolves around the sun? First off, everything I have seen foundations on are stationary. Buildings, walls, towers, etc. Then God says that the foundation is fastened to something. Again, does your car have a foundation attached to something? Your house has a foundations which attaches it to the ground. Hmmmm, if you believe these verses, you must have a hard time finding your house whenever you go out, because it probably moved away while you were gone.

That's not all. 1 Samuel 2:8 states that "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, And He has set the world upon them". If you go to any seashore, you are bound to see houses built on pillars, and yet the houses don't move. How strange...

I eagerly await your VERY LOGICAL, METHODICAL, and EMPIRICAL debunking of all these points. Oh, and, also, before you say "out of context," this shit was all believed very clearly by very very many people up until the Age of Enlightenment and the scholars and scientists it began producing began putting these ridiculous claims to rest, meaning this stuff is not out of context; it's pretty much how it was spelt out to the original Hebrew readers.

Far more likely though that I'm going to be COMPLETELY ignored by you.

[NoMoreFaith]

BTW:[/b] Upon what do you base your speculation that Abraham and Moses are mythical figures? Do you have any evidence of this?

Faulty question. Although meetings between Zeus and other Olympian gods with mortals is recounted in stories such as Homer’s Iliad, is that proof of Zeus?

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. No other religious book has been able to prove such.

You seriously don't see the problem, with a book stating it was inspired by God, and taking that as evidence of the fact?

So you MUST accept the Qu'ran is inspired by God also yes? On what basis would you dismiss it?

The book of Isaiah has been dated to 732 B.C.E or the 8th Century B.C.E, which puts it 200 years ahead of the Greeks. And then of course there's the matter of the book of Job which describes the earth as hanging upon nothing--indicating invisible gravity.It wasn't until the 20th century that astronauts were able to confirm what Moses wrote in the book of Job, that the earth indeed appears to be hanging upon nothing when seen from outer space.

Did they also see that it was completely stationary? Oops........

Now, hebrew has two words, Chug (flat circle like a coin) and Dur (sphere).

Heres some BIBLE for you;
"Also, He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (Dur) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. (Isaiah 22:18) "

Hold on a minute.. Isaiah? It ALSO uses the word for sphere.... but Chug for the world.

So why didn't they use the word Dur for the world, instead went with Chug which is a flat circle like a coin.

I'm breathless with anticipation for your reply.

[Creed of Heresy]

I'm breathless with anticipation for your reply.

I KNOW, RIGHT? 8D

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

As examples of the Bible being inspired by God, I presented in my OP the examples of two Bible writers who knew the earth is a 3D circle that hangs upon nothing.Upon what do you base your speculation that Abraham and Moses are mythical figures? Do you have any evidence of this?

I just finished saying the bible has no credibility as evidence. Plus, you need to first to establish the existence of God,which you have not done.


That Abraham was most likely a mythical figure is a widespread consensus among real scholars.PLUS the Davidic empire most probably did not exist.PLUS Judaism has NEVER been a homogeneous religion. When the Torah was first written down in the seventh century bce,many thousands of Jews were still polytheists.

Source;

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts[1] is a 2001 book about the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

Finkelstein and Silberman point out that there is still no evidence for the existence of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Lot, Moses, and Joshua. There is no evidence that Jewish people existed as an identified people that were enslaved in Egypt. There is no evidence that over 600,000 men (plus women and children - the number could have been over a million) had an exodus from Egypt and wandered in the desert for 40 years. According to the Bible, 38 of these 40 years were actually spent encamped at Kadesh-barnea. This area has been turned upside down for decades, looking for even a tiny piece of pottery from this supposed time. It is not likely that this many people would have lived here this long and not left archeological evidence.

http://www.concentric.net/~worgar/exodus.htm


That the Exodus and Moses are myth as beyond reasonable doubt has been widely known by archaeologists for around 20 years.


If you are capable of engaging your cerebral cortex,do some Googling, instead of regurgitating third rate apologetics,which so far have managed to amuse and mildly annoy people with their willful ignorance and purblind stupidity.

Bored now,nothing more to say to you,it's like trying to communicate with a shrub.