JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?

[Minimalist]

It's not me vs them, but them vs the authors of their own book!

I assure you that THEY will not see it that way.

[Brian37]

It's not me vs them, but them vs the authors of their own book!

I assure you that THEY will not see it that way.

My response was aimed at them. I agree, when one gets deluded enough it is almost impossible to get them to see what atheist know. It is not impossible, but when someone falls in love with fiction it is hard to pull them to facts.

[FallentoReason]

Bull fucking shit! If everything in the bible is "metaphor" then there is no need to believe one fucking word of it. I can find morality in Harry Potter and Dr Sues and Star Wars too.

If it's all metaphors then it's not a 'belief' as such anymore. Instead, it's a philosophy because it was written by philosophers. So things like the 6 days of creation (according to Philo, who was Plutarch's 'teacher') represent the formation of our body and mind. He says that on the fifth day the 'animals' had been created as a symbol of us attaining the five senses that all creatures posses.

[Epimethean]

Nothing like making the defense fit the case. Bullshit on the metaphor. It was not written for an educated audience.

[Brian37]

Bull fucking shit! If everything in the bible is "metaphor" then there is no need to believe one fucking word of it. I can find morality in Harry Potter and Dr Sues and Star Wars too.

If it's all metaphors then it's not a 'belief' as such anymore. Instead, it's a philosophy because it was written by philosophers. So things like the 6 days of creation (according to Philo, who was Plutarch's 'teacher') represent the formation of our body and mind. He says that on the fifth day the 'animals' had been created as a symbol of us attaining the five senses that all creatures posses.

I don't care what the fuck you want to call it "Philosophy" "Dogma" "Metaphor" , once you open your mouth and make a claim, it is mere mental masturbation until universal testing and falsification can act on it.

"It feels right" doesn't cut it.

[FallentoReason]

Nothing like making the defense fit the case.

I'm possibly referring to the man who spawned the thinkers that gave us the Gospels. Therefore I'm possibly just saying it like it is.

Bullshit on the metaphor.

Give evidence for you claim. My evidence in favour is the fact that philosophy had been influential for 600 years prior to the Gospels. The contemporary philosophy giants like Philo are classified as Hellinistic Jews which I believe gave rise to this new thing now called Christianity.

It was not written for an educated audience.

Evidence please. Show me how you know the author's intention. Oh wait, wouldn't you first need to know who wrote them?

I don't see the problem with philosophers writing purely to express their understanding. That's simply how philosophy works so I don't see how the illiterate of the time would even come into this.

---

I don't care what the fuck you want to call it "Philosophy" "Dogma" "Metaphor" , once you open your mouth and make a claim, it is mere mental masturbation until universal testing and falsification can act on it.

Then act on it. Act on my theory supported by evidence. I believe Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus is responsible for Luke-Acts.

Why can't this be?

"It feels right" doesn't cut it.

Show me where I made such a claim.

[Thor]

Let me remind you that Cornelius Tacitus lived through the reign of at least four different Roman emperors and earned the reputation as [b]"the greatest historian of his era."

And let me remind you that Tacitus was born in the year 64 CE. This is several decades after Jesus supposedly died. Consequently, Tacitus could not possibly have been an eyewitness to anything regarding Jesus.

Again, a historian does not have to live in the same century as the people he or she is reporting on.

I agree!

All that's required is access to credible documentation such as government records and the like.

I agree!

This was the case with Cornelius Tacitus. Below are some of the sources from which he got his historical data, quoted verbatim, along with the weblink to the website where I got the info from.

And do any of these sources mention Jesus? No. The only place Tacitus briefly mentions a "Christus" is in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 C.E. And he gives no source for his material. At best, what you have is unsubstantiated hearsay. Not a primary source.

Like I said, let me know when you find something written at the time Jesus supposedly lived (or written by someone who was alive at the time Jesus supposedly lived) where Jesus is mentioned. I'd bet my house you'll come up empty.

[Brian37]

Nothing like making the defense fit the case.

I'm possibly referring to the man who spawned the thinkers that gave us the Gospels. Therefore I'm possibly just saying it like it is.

Bullshit on the metaphor.

Give evidence for you claim. My evidence in favour is the fact that philosophy had been influential for 600 years prior to the Gospels. The contemporary philosophy giants like Philo are classified as Hellinistic Jews which I believe gave rise to this new thing now called Christianity.

It was not written for an educated audience.

Evidence please. Show me how you know the author's intention. Oh wait, wouldn't you first need to know who wrote them?

I don't see the problem with philosophers writing purely to express their understanding. That's simply how philosophy works so I don't see how the illiterate of the time would even come into this.

---

I don't care what the fuck you want to call it "Philosophy" "Dogma" "Metaphor" , once you open your mouth and make a claim, it is mere mental masturbation until universal testing and falsification can act on it.

Then act on it. Act on my theory supported by evidence. I believe Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus is responsible for Luke-Acts.

Why can't this be?

"It feels right" doesn't cut it.

Show me where I made such a claim.

Holly crap!

I DO NOT CARE ONE RAT'S ASS who wrote any of any holy book. George Washington is a provable person who did exist. That will never mean that he could fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass.

Magic has never existed. Whatever real people put bullshit on paper doesn't make bullshit true.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Nothing like making the defense fit the case. Bullshit on the metaphor. It was not written for an educated audience.

No,it was not,but perhaps not the best idea to conflate 'uneducated' with 'stupid, or worse, 'educated' with 'smart'.

Using allegory and metaphor in myth is a common practice.

[FallentoReason]

I DO NOT CARE ONE RAT'S ASS who wrote any of any holy book. George Washington is a provable person who did exist. That will never mean that he could fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass.

?

Ask yourself: did he make that claim? No? Then with all due respect, please do shut up. You're not addressing anything remotely close to what I'm talking about.

This forum is starting to make my blood boil just a little bit....

Magic has never existed. Whatever real people put bullshit on paper doesn't make bullshit true.

And when did I ever mention magic?