Canada's solution to school prayer: segregation.

[Napoléon]

You sound like my fiance, haha. I realize not all Africans are black and not all blacks are of African decent, either. I was utilizing it for the sake of the post.

Yeah that's why I still gave you kudos

[Jackalope]

This is not a failure of secular morals or ethics. This is a failure of individual morals and ethics.

Quiet you! It's obvious that simple judgements to complex problems are the Right Thing To Do™.

Frankly, it's not even a complex problem.

One wonders what TeeHee would say were one to suggest that an individual theist's moral failings somehow reflected on their entire group. I expect he'd either object (and rightfully so), or would claim that they weren't "Real Christians" or some such nonsense.

[Autumnlicious]

... or would claim that they weren't "Real Christians" or some such nonsense.

I know what to place my money on...

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

This sentence proves it. You are a complete retard

.


Not happy referring to people as 'retards; a term the intellectually impaired (and their carers) find offensive.

I have not seen any evidence that TeeHee is genetically impaired. This means that clinical terms such as 'moron', 'idiot' ,'imbecile' and 'cretin;'may be inappropriate.

I think 'willfully pig ignorant' pretty much covers it.


Of course I realise Min and others will probably prefer more colourful terms.

[kılıç_mehmet]

How is it inflamatory? I did not say they could not practice their beliefs, I just limited it from being part of the educational process. Oh wait, when I do it is isintolerant but when the atheist and secular [eople do it ist is for the public good. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Public schools are the centers of secular education. I believe that every child should get his religious education either at the temple of his religion, or within the family. This is where I got my religious education.
I was sent to a Qur'an course instead, learned to read arabic, fundamental prayers and prayed with my grandmother when I wanted to. Of course, we received minimal religious education in school, but how beneficial could religious education be if you are only taking two classes a week on moslem rules, worship, ethics and world religion? Really, most of the people who had less-religious families, and learned prayers in class soon forgot them.
Unless you plan to become a man of the cloth, religious education is unnecessary and moot.
You need to learn about your religion each and every day if you plan to introduce into schools, or it's just nothing more than a jest, a few free credits to pass your semester.
At least this is what it was for us.

And if you think of implementing religion into schools on such a grand scale, this will hamper secular education.
One must make a choice, or open schools that teach either theology, or secular knowledge.

You would be wrong. Just this morning I read another story about a female teacher having sex with a young student. That isn't okay by religious standards. Secularism fails its students, theirparents and society.

Yes, yes...But this is due to a lack of social morals. For example, did we Turks, ever need any religious law to punish such acts? Did we need religious laws to know that adultery was a crime against society itself?
The only place where our conversion to the mussulman religion has been helpful was in bringing us into a settled way of life and to give a religious overtone to our previous razzias from the pagan days which had little religious significance other than to gain loot and slaves to spread a religion and establish settled governments and build monuments in our(and God's) honour.
But even then, we have had secular laws. One example would be the laws of Mehmed the second, who outlawed the usual practices for fornication and adultery, and simply brought forth a fine for those who practiced adultery and fornication, and if both were unmarried, forced them to marry eachother in order to provide social stability, whereas laws from the pagan days forced the individuals to go into exile, and never return, on pain of death.

Yes it does or people are lead astray into lies, deceit and anarchy. Look at all the teachers caught for doing immoral acts, not just sex with students but lying, cheating, flasifying records, over-reactions by school officials and the list goes on.

Well, religion can be taught in schools, true, however, the extent must be carefully measured. You cannot teach religion as to get into the way of secular school curriculum, as you'd need to teach people the bible each and every day, provide assignments and examinations. You cannot force both secular and religious education into a single week, it's impossible for both school staff and kids to learn this.
As for teachers, I think that this is due to the low moral standards in your country. In our country, such a thing would never happen, not because we have extensive religious education in schools, but because we have strong social morals, that are above individual morals at all times.

[DeeTee]

Religion leads to lies and delusions. But I guess that's what you want people to be taught.

I'm sure this also applies to many religious teachers. Religion doesn't make people moral.

Your biased opinion and hatred for God means that you would not be honest and give christianity its due.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that when a person becomes a Christian, their lives do not turn perfect. The christian's life is not as easy as you imagine and believers make mistakes, disobey and not listen to what Jesus taught. Just ask some of those on this board who deconverted.

Christians will sin so don't judge because unbelievers are far worse.

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as for the segregation, there will always be pros and cons and there will always be those who will criticize. You can't please everyone. You could have the most perfect solution and someone will always find something to complain about.

When you own your own school, create your own curriculum, recruit your own teachers and students, pay your own bills etc. then see how judgemental you are.

[Reforged]

Why not just let kids pray when they want to pray instead of setting up times when *everyone* should pray? I mean its not like they need to be taught how to; "Dear God, blah blah blah, amen.".
How does being forced to do it in a group help in any part of this process? Sure as hell didn't when I was a kid, just made it ten times more awkward.

(P.S. DeeTee, are you ever going to learn how to quote properly? Seriously, this is just tiresome now.)

[Annik]

Your biased opinion and hatred for God means that you would not be honest and give christianity its due.

I don't hate your god anymore than I hate the tooth fairy; neither are likely to exist.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that when a person becomes a Christian, their lives do not turn perfect. The christian's life is not as easy as you imagine and believers make mistakes, disobey and not listen to what Jesus taught. Just ask some of those on this board who deconverted.

I used to be Christian, my life was much worse then. It's very freeing to realize you can take the horns of your own life and you don't have to feel guilty for being human, either.

Christians will sin so don't judge because unbelievers are far worse.

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as for the segregation, there will always be pros and cons and there will always be those who will criticize. You can't please everyone. You could have the most perfect solution and someone will always find something to complain about.

1. How are we "much worse"? Oh yeah, you think we're some kind of hate-fueled animals.
2. The best solution is to keep all religion out of school. There are a large number of different sects of Christianity alone, which one would you want to implement? They can be very different. And then you have to account for the Jewish students, the Muslim students, all which have sects of their own. It's all or nothing and nothing is significantly easier and more efficient to implement.

When you own your own school, create your own curriculum, recruit your own teachers and students, pay your own bills etc. then see how judgemental you are.

Christians already have their own private school system, so crawl into that hole of ignorance and leave the secularists alone, eh?

[Ziploc Surprise]

Why not just let kids pray when they want to pray instead of setting up times when *everyone* should pray? I mean its not like they need to be taught how to; "Dear God, blah blah blah, amen.".
How does being forced to do it in a group help in any part of this process? Sure as hell didn't when I was a kid, just made it ten times more awkward.

(P.S. DeeTee, are you ever going to learn how to quote properly? Seriously, this is just tiresome now.)

The real truth is that organized corporate prayer in school is a dominance thing. Just like so many other things Christians do to show dominance and push people around. Someone once said that there's been prayer in school ever since there's been math exams. There's no reason why prayer must be mandatory and public.

BTW corporate public prayer is technically speaking unbiblical. According to the Bible you are supposed to pray humbly and quietly in a closet or something like that. Damn Christians always want to bring it out of the closet.

[Jackalope]

Question to those among us (well, one among us) who is advocating for religious public schooling:

Do you REALLY want the public school system to decide which religious beliefs will be taught? If you're in the minority, are you going to suck it up and go along with the majority, like you're advising secularists to do?

Just a thought. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.